For anyone who doubts that George Karl has been coaching defense ONLY this year, and that the Nuggets, at least in games 4 and 5 of the Mavericks series, went well beyond his instructions and limitations, you can view this video. The little snippets in this video show George Karl instructing his team to worry about defense only. He has been saying the same thing all season, both in games and in practices.
Also note that Mr. Karl, who has seen numerous playoff seasons go to hell in a hand basket in years past, says that "I am convinced that no one will be able to take away the ability to celebrate this season."
No one? Laugh out loud. As you might expect, the Quest disagrees.
The Nuggets need to in the West finals win at least three games against the Lakers, or they need to defeat the Rockets, and then go on to win at least two games against the Cavaliers in the NBA Championship, or maybe I might say at least one game if you caught me in my best possible mood, in order for me to consider this to be a successful Nuggets playoff season. Here are some of the reasons for that:
1. The Hornets were badly banged up, so that series was very close to completely irrelevant.
2. The Mavericks were slightly banged up, and they were out to lunch defensively. Moreover, that series was really a 4-2 or a 4-3 Nuggets type of series, not a 4-1 series. And another moreover: the referees were asleep at the switch in games 1 and 2.
3. The Nuggets are very, very talented on defense AND offense. They clearly can have a high octane offense if they want to, as shown in parts of both the Hornets and the Mavericks series. They are not limited to points off fast breaking from the defense only.
To go with this, the Nuggets have a high octane defense. Even though the Nuggets have recently departed from the letter of the George Karl script, especially on offense, they are still overall to a large extent reflecting the George Karl approach to basketball. Therefore, if the Nuggets, despite being about as talented as the Lakers, and more athletic and charged up than are the Lakers this playoff season, do not win at least 3 games versus the Lakers, then I will most definitely pronounce the playoff season as a failure for the Nuggets, and I will most definitely substantially blame it on Mr. Karl.
The same is true if the Nuggets, who are most definitely more talented on both offense and defense than are the Houston Rockets with no Yao Ming or Tracy McGrady, lose to the Rockets in a Rockets-Nuggets West final. That would be a complete failure on the part of the Nuggets and a complete failure of the George Karl 2009 system.
[This is a fast break type of posting, a short post needed to be pushed out the door quickly to be timely. In the great majority of cases, a fast break posting is followed up by much longer articles, that will contain a lot of proof for any points made in the fast breaks. Remember that many Quest reports have much more detail than this one; Quest for the Ring prides itself on game, team, and League breakdowns that are as long as necessary to make and prove the points.]
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REPORTS--#21 THROUGH #40
Saturday, May 16, 2009
Friday, May 15, 2009
The Lakers, the Nuggets, the Rockets, and Some Real Truths About Basketball
This has truly been one of the most interesting weeks ever here, along our mission to determine exactly how the Quest for the Ring is won. You have to hand it to the Nuggets: you learn a good number of really important things along the wild ride they take you on.
The funny thing is, I am in a kind of overtime coverage of the Nuggets, because I honestly wanted to have been more moved on to the Cavaliers and Lakers by now. But how can you ignore the Nuggets these days? A team like the Nuggets, which is loaded with talent and unpredictable to boot, is not the kind of team that comes along every year.
About a week ago, we complained in this report that the Nuggets were in effect trying to change basketball by bringing a defense in overdrive to the NBA, a too rough defense that is not concerned at all with how many fouls it commits. A kind of defense that, were it adopted by other teams, would not only lead to too many free throws in games, but also to a big increase in flagrant fouls and even fights.
But on the other hand, the Nuggets did get a lot of traction from that kind of defense against the badly banged up Hornets and the slightly banged up and defensively challenged Mavericks. And much more importantly, it was not long before it was remembered that this year's defending Champion, the Boston Celtics, had a high fouling rate when they defeated the Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 in the 2008 Championship.
So what in the name of LeBron James is going on here? Were we wrong about our presumption that high fouling rates are almost always a bad idea?
Well, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. So we quickly launched a research project to determine how easy or difficult it is to win a Ring with a high fouling and a kind of high but not extremely high quality defense.
It turns out it is apparently very close to impossible. This was a big relief, let me tell you. My instincts are very seldom wrong, and I defintely didn't want that one to be wrong.
Here are the facts in fast break form, to be proved in greater detail later:
1. Basketball is a truly great sport because, unlike most other sports, it is split right diown the middle between offense and defense. It is almost exactly as easy to win a Ring by having a great offense and a very good defense as it is by having a great defense and a very good offense. Most other sports are biased either in favor of offense or in favor of defense.
For important details about this subject, check out this very important recent report, and there will be more on this subject in the near future as already indicated. Note to anyone who already read that report: it has been slightly rewritten to emphasize better than before that a high fouling defense is much worse than a low fouling defense for winning a Ring.
2. Among teams that have won or tried to win a Championship, by emphasizing defense and by putting on the court a great defense, it has been far easier for a low or medium fouling team to actually win the Ring than for a high fouling team to win it. The lower the fouling rate, the better.
The 2008 Boston Celtics win was literally the exception to the rule. So in the Stop the Nuggets Before They Change Basketball Report, I didn't realize it at the time, but now I do: The Nuggets are both a team that will be copied should they get into the Championship, but they are also already this year's monkey see, monkey do team. They are the team that, consciously or not, is copying some of the Celtics defensive policies from 2008.
The problem, as explained in detail here, is that the Nuggets are lacking some of the necessary prerequisite ingredients to be able to actually win the Quest for the Ring with a high fouling defense. The Celtics did have those prerequisites.
Instead, the Nuggets face the same fate that the overwhelming majority of high fouling teams have suffered over the years: they will be defeated in the Quest for the Ring with this kind of defense.
WHAT ABOUT GAME 5, AND THE RETURN OF THE OLD CARMELO ANTHONY?
But wait. Now the Nuggets have possibly thrown another big wrench into the machine. In their semifinal series with the Dallas Mavericks, following the massive number of fouls in game 3, which included Chris Andersen fouling out, in games 4 and 5 the old Carmelo Anthony appeared and, even more shocking, the Nuggets defied George Karl and trashed Karl's rough and high fouling defending and all fast breaks all the time on offense script in exchange for a reasonably good defense and a not very organized but very, very high octane offense.
The Quest for the Ring was left in relative shock, and was reminded that in sports, unlike in politics and economics, things that you do not expect can and will happen sometimes. That's what makes covering sports more fun than covering politics or economics.
Or so I tell myself, laugh out loud.
THE DEFENSES OF THE LAKERS, THE NUGGETS, AND THE ROCKETS
Using the regular season as the measure, the Rockets in fact have the best defense between the three remaining West teams by a good margin. Not only is the Rockets' defense (104.0 points allowed per 100 possessions) better than both the Lakers' defense (104.7 points allowed per 100 possessions) and the Nuggets' defense (106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions) but the Rockets foul far less (18.9 fouls per game) than do both the Lakers (20.7 fouls per game) and the Nuggets (22.9 fouls per game) In total, the Rockets committed only 1,553 fouls this season, versus 1698 for the Lakers and versus 1,875 for the operating in overdrive Nuggets.
LAKERS-NUGGETS WEST FINAL
So when Dallas Coach Rick Carlisle said that the Nuggets could win the Quest for the Ring outright, he might have actually been thinking that instead of just saying what every coach who has been hammered in an NBA semifinal has to say. Because the Nuggets could very possibly be truly dangerous if they could run both a high octane defense and the very high octane offense they ran in games 4 and 5 against Dallas in the West final or even in the Championship.
Of course, as already explained, the Lakers are a better defensive team than are the Nuggets, whether the Nuggets elect to heavily foul or not.
So even if the Nuggets roll out a kind of blend between the Karl extreme and what was seen especially in game 5 of the Mavericks-Nuggets series, if they in other words use a dangerous (to the other team, that is) offensive blend of fast breaking and a roughly organized but high octane offense against the Lakers (with Nene, Carmelo Anthony, and Chauncey Billups all on point) they will probably fall short in a 6 or 7 game series against Los Angeles, since the Lakers have a very high quality, medium fouling rate defense.
Not to mention that the main Lakers' claim to fame this year, as it is in most years, is one of the very best offenses in the NBA, an offense so good that it should not matter how high the Nuggets' fouling rate is, they are very likely to be exposed by the Lakers regardless of how rough they choose to be.
So if it is Lakers-Nuggets in the West finals, I don't see how the Nuggets can win whether they bring their normal high fouling defense and fast breaking style, or whether they try to confound George Karl by bringing the high octane offense of games 4 and 5 versus Dallas. In other words, regardless of how much the Nuggets go against George Karl, I see the Lakers defeating the Nuggets in the West final.
ROCKETS-NUGGETS WEST FINAL?
But wait. It's even more complicated than that with respect to speculating as to whether the Nuggets could earn a match with LeBron James in the 2009 Championship. Because the Rockets, with the very best defense of the three teams remember, and with a bunch of Rockets hitting shots they simply didn't make in the regular season, have pushed the Lakers to a game seven tomorrow in Los Angeles.
Should the Rockets defeat the Lakers in game seven, all bets are off as to what will happen in the West final.
Keep in mind that it is science fiction if the Rockets beat the Lakers, because they are lacking the two players who most everyone thinks are the best players on that team: Center Yao Ming, and Shooting Guard Tracy McGrady. So if it is Rockets-Nuggets, any unbiased person would have to predict that the Nuggets will win that series.
Were this to be the series, the Rockets storybook season would probably come to an end, with all those suddenly hot shooters becoming not so hot again. All the Nuggets would have to do to shut down these Rockets shooters would be to simply roll out their intimidating and disrupting defense. Veteran shooters can overcome that type of defense but not big surprise streak type of shooters
Meanwhile, defensively, the Rockets can only go so far without Yao Ming. They are not the 4th best defense in the NBA without Yao Ming, I can assure you. Without him, the Rockets are probably not in theory even as good a defensive team as are the Nuggets.
The Rockets' biggest problem would be the same biggest problem that the Maveircks had: how do you contain the inside scoring machine Nene with no dominant in the paint, quality defending center or at least power forward? You can't do it, which sets up the easy way for the Nuggets to shift into a ragged, mostly disorganized, but very high octane offense with three excellent scorers: Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, and Nene.
It would probably be roughly an instant replay of the Mavericks-Nuggets series.
The bottom line is that as long as the Nuggets keep showing a healthy disrespect for the instructions of George Karl, I just don't see how the Rockets with no Yao Ming defeat the Nuggets if they play in the West final.
About the only way for the Rockets to win would be if the Nuggets start using the George Karl script heavily again, and over rely on rough defending and fast breaking. If they did that, and the referees stood up for the game more than they did in games 1 of 2 of the Dallas series (which was hardly at all) the Rockets might have a chance. Otherwise, I don't like the chances of Houston with no Yao and no Tracy McGrady to beat Denver.
No one has every claimed that George Karl's "system" is worthless. And if you have a bunch of really, really good players who are smart enough to realize that his system is limited, so they blend it with some real basketball, you have a team that is probably too good for Houston with no Yao and no McGrady.
Game on people.
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The funny thing is, I am in a kind of overtime coverage of the Nuggets, because I honestly wanted to have been more moved on to the Cavaliers and Lakers by now. But how can you ignore the Nuggets these days? A team like the Nuggets, which is loaded with talent and unpredictable to boot, is not the kind of team that comes along every year.
About a week ago, we complained in this report that the Nuggets were in effect trying to change basketball by bringing a defense in overdrive to the NBA, a too rough defense that is not concerned at all with how many fouls it commits. A kind of defense that, were it adopted by other teams, would not only lead to too many free throws in games, but also to a big increase in flagrant fouls and even fights.
But on the other hand, the Nuggets did get a lot of traction from that kind of defense against the badly banged up Hornets and the slightly banged up and defensively challenged Mavericks. And much more importantly, it was not long before it was remembered that this year's defending Champion, the Boston Celtics, had a high fouling rate when they defeated the Los Angeles Lakers 4-2 in the 2008 Championship.
So what in the name of LeBron James is going on here? Were we wrong about our presumption that high fouling rates are almost always a bad idea?
Well, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. So we quickly launched a research project to determine how easy or difficult it is to win a Ring with a high fouling and a kind of high but not extremely high quality defense.
It turns out it is apparently very close to impossible. This was a big relief, let me tell you. My instincts are very seldom wrong, and I defintely didn't want that one to be wrong.
Here are the facts in fast break form, to be proved in greater detail later:
1. Basketball is a truly great sport because, unlike most other sports, it is split right diown the middle between offense and defense. It is almost exactly as easy to win a Ring by having a great offense and a very good defense as it is by having a great defense and a very good offense. Most other sports are biased either in favor of offense or in favor of defense.
For important details about this subject, check out this very important recent report, and there will be more on this subject in the near future as already indicated. Note to anyone who already read that report: it has been slightly rewritten to emphasize better than before that a high fouling defense is much worse than a low fouling defense for winning a Ring.
2. Among teams that have won or tried to win a Championship, by emphasizing defense and by putting on the court a great defense, it has been far easier for a low or medium fouling team to actually win the Ring than for a high fouling team to win it. The lower the fouling rate, the better.
The 2008 Boston Celtics win was literally the exception to the rule. So in the Stop the Nuggets Before They Change Basketball Report, I didn't realize it at the time, but now I do: The Nuggets are both a team that will be copied should they get into the Championship, but they are also already this year's monkey see, monkey do team. They are the team that, consciously or not, is copying some of the Celtics defensive policies from 2008.
The problem, as explained in detail here, is that the Nuggets are lacking some of the necessary prerequisite ingredients to be able to actually win the Quest for the Ring with a high fouling defense. The Celtics did have those prerequisites.
Instead, the Nuggets face the same fate that the overwhelming majority of high fouling teams have suffered over the years: they will be defeated in the Quest for the Ring with this kind of defense.
WHAT ABOUT GAME 5, AND THE RETURN OF THE OLD CARMELO ANTHONY?
But wait. Now the Nuggets have possibly thrown another big wrench into the machine. In their semifinal series with the Dallas Mavericks, following the massive number of fouls in game 3, which included Chris Andersen fouling out, in games 4 and 5 the old Carmelo Anthony appeared and, even more shocking, the Nuggets defied George Karl and trashed Karl's rough and high fouling defending and all fast breaks all the time on offense script in exchange for a reasonably good defense and a not very organized but very, very high octane offense.
The Quest for the Ring was left in relative shock, and was reminded that in sports, unlike in politics and economics, things that you do not expect can and will happen sometimes. That's what makes covering sports more fun than covering politics or economics.
Or so I tell myself, laugh out loud.
THE DEFENSES OF THE LAKERS, THE NUGGETS, AND THE ROCKETS
Using the regular season as the measure, the Rockets in fact have the best defense between the three remaining West teams by a good margin. Not only is the Rockets' defense (104.0 points allowed per 100 possessions) better than both the Lakers' defense (104.7 points allowed per 100 possessions) and the Nuggets' defense (106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions) but the Rockets foul far less (18.9 fouls per game) than do both the Lakers (20.7 fouls per game) and the Nuggets (22.9 fouls per game) In total, the Rockets committed only 1,553 fouls this season, versus 1698 for the Lakers and versus 1,875 for the operating in overdrive Nuggets.
LAKERS-NUGGETS WEST FINAL
So when Dallas Coach Rick Carlisle said that the Nuggets could win the Quest for the Ring outright, he might have actually been thinking that instead of just saying what every coach who has been hammered in an NBA semifinal has to say. Because the Nuggets could very possibly be truly dangerous if they could run both a high octane defense and the very high octane offense they ran in games 4 and 5 against Dallas in the West final or even in the Championship.
Of course, as already explained, the Lakers are a better defensive team than are the Nuggets, whether the Nuggets elect to heavily foul or not.
So even if the Nuggets roll out a kind of blend between the Karl extreme and what was seen especially in game 5 of the Mavericks-Nuggets series, if they in other words use a dangerous (to the other team, that is) offensive blend of fast breaking and a roughly organized but high octane offense against the Lakers (with Nene, Carmelo Anthony, and Chauncey Billups all on point) they will probably fall short in a 6 or 7 game series against Los Angeles, since the Lakers have a very high quality, medium fouling rate defense.
Not to mention that the main Lakers' claim to fame this year, as it is in most years, is one of the very best offenses in the NBA, an offense so good that it should not matter how high the Nuggets' fouling rate is, they are very likely to be exposed by the Lakers regardless of how rough they choose to be.
So if it is Lakers-Nuggets in the West finals, I don't see how the Nuggets can win whether they bring their normal high fouling defense and fast breaking style, or whether they try to confound George Karl by bringing the high octane offense of games 4 and 5 versus Dallas. In other words, regardless of how much the Nuggets go against George Karl, I see the Lakers defeating the Nuggets in the West final.
ROCKETS-NUGGETS WEST FINAL?
But wait. It's even more complicated than that with respect to speculating as to whether the Nuggets could earn a match with LeBron James in the 2009 Championship. Because the Rockets, with the very best defense of the three teams remember, and with a bunch of Rockets hitting shots they simply didn't make in the regular season, have pushed the Lakers to a game seven tomorrow in Los Angeles.
Should the Rockets defeat the Lakers in game seven, all bets are off as to what will happen in the West final.
Keep in mind that it is science fiction if the Rockets beat the Lakers, because they are lacking the two players who most everyone thinks are the best players on that team: Center Yao Ming, and Shooting Guard Tracy McGrady. So if it is Rockets-Nuggets, any unbiased person would have to predict that the Nuggets will win that series.
Were this to be the series, the Rockets storybook season would probably come to an end, with all those suddenly hot shooters becoming not so hot again. All the Nuggets would have to do to shut down these Rockets shooters would be to simply roll out their intimidating and disrupting defense. Veteran shooters can overcome that type of defense but not big surprise streak type of shooters
Meanwhile, defensively, the Rockets can only go so far without Yao Ming. They are not the 4th best defense in the NBA without Yao Ming, I can assure you. Without him, the Rockets are probably not in theory even as good a defensive team as are the Nuggets.
The Rockets' biggest problem would be the same biggest problem that the Maveircks had: how do you contain the inside scoring machine Nene with no dominant in the paint, quality defending center or at least power forward? You can't do it, which sets up the easy way for the Nuggets to shift into a ragged, mostly disorganized, but very high octane offense with three excellent scorers: Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, and Nene.
It would probably be roughly an instant replay of the Mavericks-Nuggets series.
The bottom line is that as long as the Nuggets keep showing a healthy disrespect for the instructions of George Karl, I just don't see how the Rockets with no Yao Ming defeat the Nuggets if they play in the West final.
About the only way for the Rockets to win would be if the Nuggets start using the George Karl script heavily again, and over rely on rough defending and fast breaking. If they did that, and the referees stood up for the game more than they did in games 1 of 2 of the Dallas series (which was hardly at all) the Rockets might have a chance. Otherwise, I don't like the chances of Houston with no Yao and no Tracy McGrady to beat Denver.
No one has every claimed that George Karl's "system" is worthless. And if you have a bunch of really, really good players who are smart enough to realize that his system is limited, so they blend it with some real basketball, you have a team that is probably too good for Houston with no Yao and no McGrady.
Game on people.
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Wednesday, May 13, 2009
The Nuggets Play Real Basketball in Game 5 of the Dallas-Denver Series, Dallas Comes up Short Against Nene, and the Classic Carmelo Anthony Appears
We wondered this season, for example in this report, which Carmelo Anthony would there be in the future, including in the playoffs? Would it be the new version, the “well rounded player” (whatever that is) demanded by George Karl, or would it be the classic, power scoring Carmelo Anthony, the one that won the NCAA Championship, and the one we always see in the Olympics?
Would Carmelo Anthony keep doing what he was told by George Karl, like a little kid? Or would he finally be a full scale grown up, and do what he thinks is right, regardless of what his papa or his coach says?
What Carmelo Anthony thinks is right is, you guessed it, to make some hoops. A lot of them.
Here as of right now are the top 10 scorers, the power scorers, of this year's NBA playoffs. After each player's name is points per game:
1. LeBron James-CLE 32.9
2. Dwyane Wade-MIA 29.1
3. Tony Parker-SAS 28.6
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL 28.3
5. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 27.0
6. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.8
7. Brandon Roy-POR 26.7
8. Ben Gordon-CHI 24.3
9. Chauncey Billups-DEN 22.1
10. Paul Pierce-BOS 21.8
Being a cynical type, especially regarding the Nuggets, we thought the new Carmelo Anthony would be the one seen in the playoffs. The wrong one, in other words. The one who looks to pass too much, the one who starts trying to pad his rebound totals for gods sake.
Not to mention that we thought that Carmelo Anthony would probably have his fourth poor playoff series out of five, rather than his second good series out of five. Or at least that he would be mediocre, and not great the way he has been.
But the Nuggets are nothing if not surprising, having fooled all of America again and again this year. So it was poetic justice that when the curtain went up for this series, and especially for game 5 of this year’s semifinal between the Mavericks and the Nuggets, it would be the old Carmelo Anthony who would appear, not the new, George Karl one.
It is the classic Carmelo Anthony who truly represents the soul of basketball, which is at heart a game about making hoops, which means it is a game with a small bias in favor of offense.
Yes, you can win a Championship by placing your defense ahead of your offense. But contrary to the myth, you can also win one by placing your offense above your defense, while having pride and intensity on defense to hold down the fort on that end. It’s your choice, and you choose based on the players you have. Anyone who tells you that you have to always or even usually place your defense over your offense is wrong.
Look for reports in the months ahead about how the Championship winners are split almost exactly down the middle in terms of which ones won the Quest for the Ring with their offense first and foremost, and which ones won it with their defense first and foremost. It could not be more even than it is right now. Don’t miss those upcoming reports.
The Nuggets, who were at least as loaded offensively last year as this year, nevertheless abandoned all hope of ever having a truly great offense in the summer of 2008, due primarily to George Karl’s inability to properly value and/or his inability to properly direct a great offense.
At the same time, the Nuggets’ owner was running for cover, his tail between his legs, in the face of the economic carnage. So then the Nuggets picked up for very little money a bunch of defensive specialists, who keep in mind though, had mind boggling offensive numbers this year, at least for defensive specialists, due to all the fast breaks that were generated by the Nuggets’ ferocious and lightning fast defense.
The Nuggets this year must have at least come close to the all time record for amount of offense generated from the defense.
Oh, and did I mention recently they probably set the all time luck record this year, too? Yes, I have been mentioning that.
To win the Quest for the Ring, you need at least one and preferably two players who can not be stopped from scoring by hardly anyone. You need a player or two who can make a shot with a 6 foot 10 guy all up in the grill, half blocking the vision, maybe also nudging your arm or your head. You need to be able to make the hoop when no one but you can make the hoop at that instant, from that spot, and with that defender who might be good enough to stop anyone except for you from making that shot.
Whether you like it or not, and many Americans don't like it, this is the heart of basketball.
Carmelo Anthony answered this call in this series, so he crossed another river way out in the hinterlands, in the Quest for the Ring.
Although the Mavericks narrowly but indisputably won games 3 and 4, and although games 1 and 2 should have been much closer, I am prepared to say that the Nuggets would have won games 1 and 2 even if the referees had not been asleep at the switch, unless the referees had thrown everything including the kitchen sink at them.
I mean, in a perfect world, Kenyon Martin would have been thrown out of game one for virtually throwing Dirk Nowitzki to the floor in the first quarter, but a perect world this is not, and everyone would have been dumbfounded had Martin been thrown out.
Oh well, at least leaving Martin in there allows the millions of young people to keep thinking that basketball is a contact sport like football. Laugh out loud, kiddies, do you believe in Santa Claus, also?
I am further prepared to say that were the series 3-2 Nuggets after game 5, which was the real tally, that the Nuggets most likely would have won either game 6 in Dallas or game 7 in Denver. In other words, sooner or later, they were going to win this series. Technically we don’t know that for sure, but I am forced to throw in the towel on the subject after witnessing the amazing return of the classic Carmelo Anthony.
Aside from Carmelo Anthony, why did the Nuggets win? Because they eventually broke out of the defensive prison run by Chief Warden George Karl. Meanwhile, the Mavericks obviously were a great offensive team this year, but they did not have quite enough height or intensity up front, which allowed Nene to do untold damage to their chances to win this series.
Dallas Coach Rick Carlisle, who proved himself to be one of the NBA's best offensive coaches this year, came up a little short defensively.
Carlisle should have done a better job in this series of coaching and rotating in and out his squad of centers and power forwards, none of whom are dominant defenders in the Tim Duncan mode, but all of which have their strengths, or else they wouldn't be playing in the NBA.
At the very least, by going to a 9-player rotation, and by avoiding the temptation to play small, which Dallas did way too much of, you would have kept height and fresh legs out there up front to try to contain the always fresh legs of Nene. And Chris Andersen for that matter.
You can bet your last dollar that Greg Popovich, Phil Jackson, and probably Rick Adelman would have done this; none of them would have let Erick Dampier be so badly beaten by Nene. Quite honestly Dampier was a little too old to be able to effectively deal with the fast, powerful, and still relatively young Brazilian known as Nene.
Carlisle did scramble after the Nene onslaught in games 1 and 2 to go to a lot more Brandon Bass. Bass was probably the best option Dallas had to try to contain Nene. But as I said, no single Maverick was going to do it, so they should have thrown most of their roster at the problem of dealing with him.
Although he did eventually go to him, Carlisle waited too long to give a lot more playing time to Brandon Bass. Bass should have come to the relief of Dampier more quickly.
I definitely would have played Ryan Hollins much more, starting no later than game 3. What actually happened was that Hollins' minutes got fewer and fewer as the series went along. He did not play at all in either games 4 or 5. I would have told Hollins: "We're going to lose this series unless you can slow down Nene a little."
Or even SF James Singleton should have been tried. According to the Quest Real Player Ratings Defensive Subrating, Singleton was one of the best Mavericks defenders this season.
I mean, if you put James Singleton or Hollins out there, or even both of them out there, joining Dampier and Bass, would it really have been a gamble? No, because it could hardly have been any worse for Dallas in terms of interior defense than it was. Nene was just too fast for Erick Dampier, and his field goal percentage was way off the charts.
All of this critique about the Dallas defending is even more valid than you might think, since SF Josh Howard was practically limping around out there, with one ankle going to get surgery and the other ankle sprung a little early in the series. A guy on those ankles is no match for Nene. Or for Classic Carmelo Anthony either.
The bottom line is that the Mavericks did not have an adequate defense to contain Nene. This meant that Chauncey Billups and Carmelo Anthony would be able to, along with Nene, form a three headed monster that would devour the Mavericks. Dallas had a good enouogh offense to beat the Nuggets had they been able to contain the easy inside Nene scores.
I doubt Phil Jackson would have been bitten in the rear end by Nene three games in the same series. Or that he will be, laugh out loud, because damn, the Nuggets have earned a place in the West finals against Mr. Phil and his Lakers. Nene, say hello to Lamar Odom and Trevor Ariza.
George Karl hated game 5. The Nuggets threw his all defense, all the time script in the garbage for some old time religion. Game 5 was basketball. I loved game 5. The Nuggets played real basketball for a change, and I have been dreaming that the classic Carmelo Anthony would come back some day.
But the Los Angeles Lakers, who the Nuggets will most likely play in the West Finals, almost always play real basketball. They don’t, as the Nuggets do, look for shortcuts on offense and roughness to make up for any lack of defending skill on defense. They are the ultimate soul of basketball team.
The Lakers have won The Quest for the Ring 9 times, 13 times if you include the 4 times the Minneapolis Lakers won the Quest. The Lakers' current Coach, Phil Jackson, has also won the Quest 9 times. The Denver Nuggets of course have never won the Quest for the Ring.
MESSAGE TO CARMELO ANTHONY
Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant and the Lakers welcome you to the next level in the Quest for the Ring. You finally understood that you have to make decisions on your own, and perform better than everyone including your coach thinks you can. You have to show that neither you nor the game is limited in the way George Karl thinks. You have to be a little like Che Guevara, a little bit of a rebel.
Ultimately in the Quest, it is you and you alone who decides how specifically to try to win it.
But be aware there may not be a way to win it if the basics of your team are not right. I don't see the basics of your team being right, Mr. Carmelo Anthony. I have given my reasons in many reports.
But take your best shot. As the Quest nears it’s end, the coaches do fade into the background. Whatever good, and whatever bad, they have done, in setting the stage, is not something that anyone can change when game time in the Conference finals or the NBA championship has come.
So players such as Carmelo Anthony have to do whatever they can, based on what they decide, with the cards they have been dealt.
Game on.
[Editor's Note: Look for Real Player Ratings for each game in this series, and the other playoff series, in the weeks and months ahead. The Quest is now, among other objectives, serving as the year round "NBA playoffs site," and we will give you more detail about the playoff games than you can get elsewhere, but we are unable to do this as quickly as sites such as ESPN would do it, if they could and wanted to do it that is.]
You Can Post Your Response to Anything on Quest Here
Would Carmelo Anthony keep doing what he was told by George Karl, like a little kid? Or would he finally be a full scale grown up, and do what he thinks is right, regardless of what his papa or his coach says?
What Carmelo Anthony thinks is right is, you guessed it, to make some hoops. A lot of them.
Here as of right now are the top 10 scorers, the power scorers, of this year's NBA playoffs. After each player's name is points per game:
1. LeBron James-CLE 32.9
2. Dwyane Wade-MIA 29.1
3. Tony Parker-SAS 28.6
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL 28.3
5. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 27.0
6. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.8
7. Brandon Roy-POR 26.7
8. Ben Gordon-CHI 24.3
9. Chauncey Billups-DEN 22.1
10. Paul Pierce-BOS 21.8
Being a cynical type, especially regarding the Nuggets, we thought the new Carmelo Anthony would be the one seen in the playoffs. The wrong one, in other words. The one who looks to pass too much, the one who starts trying to pad his rebound totals for gods sake.
Not to mention that we thought that Carmelo Anthony would probably have his fourth poor playoff series out of five, rather than his second good series out of five. Or at least that he would be mediocre, and not great the way he has been.
But the Nuggets are nothing if not surprising, having fooled all of America again and again this year. So it was poetic justice that when the curtain went up for this series, and especially for game 5 of this year’s semifinal between the Mavericks and the Nuggets, it would be the old Carmelo Anthony who would appear, not the new, George Karl one.
It is the classic Carmelo Anthony who truly represents the soul of basketball, which is at heart a game about making hoops, which means it is a game with a small bias in favor of offense.
Yes, you can win a Championship by placing your defense ahead of your offense. But contrary to the myth, you can also win one by placing your offense above your defense, while having pride and intensity on defense to hold down the fort on that end. It’s your choice, and you choose based on the players you have. Anyone who tells you that you have to always or even usually place your defense over your offense is wrong.
Look for reports in the months ahead about how the Championship winners are split almost exactly down the middle in terms of which ones won the Quest for the Ring with their offense first and foremost, and which ones won it with their defense first and foremost. It could not be more even than it is right now. Don’t miss those upcoming reports.
The Nuggets, who were at least as loaded offensively last year as this year, nevertheless abandoned all hope of ever having a truly great offense in the summer of 2008, due primarily to George Karl’s inability to properly value and/or his inability to properly direct a great offense.
At the same time, the Nuggets’ owner was running for cover, his tail between his legs, in the face of the economic carnage. So then the Nuggets picked up for very little money a bunch of defensive specialists, who keep in mind though, had mind boggling offensive numbers this year, at least for defensive specialists, due to all the fast breaks that were generated by the Nuggets’ ferocious and lightning fast defense.
The Nuggets this year must have at least come close to the all time record for amount of offense generated from the defense.
Oh, and did I mention recently they probably set the all time luck record this year, too? Yes, I have been mentioning that.
To win the Quest for the Ring, you need at least one and preferably two players who can not be stopped from scoring by hardly anyone. You need a player or two who can make a shot with a 6 foot 10 guy all up in the grill, half blocking the vision, maybe also nudging your arm or your head. You need to be able to make the hoop when no one but you can make the hoop at that instant, from that spot, and with that defender who might be good enough to stop anyone except for you from making that shot.
Whether you like it or not, and many Americans don't like it, this is the heart of basketball.
Carmelo Anthony answered this call in this series, so he crossed another river way out in the hinterlands, in the Quest for the Ring.
Although the Mavericks narrowly but indisputably won games 3 and 4, and although games 1 and 2 should have been much closer, I am prepared to say that the Nuggets would have won games 1 and 2 even if the referees had not been asleep at the switch, unless the referees had thrown everything including the kitchen sink at them.
I mean, in a perfect world, Kenyon Martin would have been thrown out of game one for virtually throwing Dirk Nowitzki to the floor in the first quarter, but a perect world this is not, and everyone would have been dumbfounded had Martin been thrown out.
Oh well, at least leaving Martin in there allows the millions of young people to keep thinking that basketball is a contact sport like football. Laugh out loud, kiddies, do you believe in Santa Claus, also?
I am further prepared to say that were the series 3-2 Nuggets after game 5, which was the real tally, that the Nuggets most likely would have won either game 6 in Dallas or game 7 in Denver. In other words, sooner or later, they were going to win this series. Technically we don’t know that for sure, but I am forced to throw in the towel on the subject after witnessing the amazing return of the classic Carmelo Anthony.
Aside from Carmelo Anthony, why did the Nuggets win? Because they eventually broke out of the defensive prison run by Chief Warden George Karl. Meanwhile, the Mavericks obviously were a great offensive team this year, but they did not have quite enough height or intensity up front, which allowed Nene to do untold damage to their chances to win this series.
Dallas Coach Rick Carlisle, who proved himself to be one of the NBA's best offensive coaches this year, came up a little short defensively.
Carlisle should have done a better job in this series of coaching and rotating in and out his squad of centers and power forwards, none of whom are dominant defenders in the Tim Duncan mode, but all of which have their strengths, or else they wouldn't be playing in the NBA.
At the very least, by going to a 9-player rotation, and by avoiding the temptation to play small, which Dallas did way too much of, you would have kept height and fresh legs out there up front to try to contain the always fresh legs of Nene. And Chris Andersen for that matter.
You can bet your last dollar that Greg Popovich, Phil Jackson, and probably Rick Adelman would have done this; none of them would have let Erick Dampier be so badly beaten by Nene. Quite honestly Dampier was a little too old to be able to effectively deal with the fast, powerful, and still relatively young Brazilian known as Nene.
Carlisle did scramble after the Nene onslaught in games 1 and 2 to go to a lot more Brandon Bass. Bass was probably the best option Dallas had to try to contain Nene. But as I said, no single Maverick was going to do it, so they should have thrown most of their roster at the problem of dealing with him.
Although he did eventually go to him, Carlisle waited too long to give a lot more playing time to Brandon Bass. Bass should have come to the relief of Dampier more quickly.
I definitely would have played Ryan Hollins much more, starting no later than game 3. What actually happened was that Hollins' minutes got fewer and fewer as the series went along. He did not play at all in either games 4 or 5. I would have told Hollins: "We're going to lose this series unless you can slow down Nene a little."
Or even SF James Singleton should have been tried. According to the Quest Real Player Ratings Defensive Subrating, Singleton was one of the best Mavericks defenders this season.
I mean, if you put James Singleton or Hollins out there, or even both of them out there, joining Dampier and Bass, would it really have been a gamble? No, because it could hardly have been any worse for Dallas in terms of interior defense than it was. Nene was just too fast for Erick Dampier, and his field goal percentage was way off the charts.
All of this critique about the Dallas defending is even more valid than you might think, since SF Josh Howard was practically limping around out there, with one ankle going to get surgery and the other ankle sprung a little early in the series. A guy on those ankles is no match for Nene. Or for Classic Carmelo Anthony either.
The bottom line is that the Mavericks did not have an adequate defense to contain Nene. This meant that Chauncey Billups and Carmelo Anthony would be able to, along with Nene, form a three headed monster that would devour the Mavericks. Dallas had a good enouogh offense to beat the Nuggets had they been able to contain the easy inside Nene scores.
I doubt Phil Jackson would have been bitten in the rear end by Nene three games in the same series. Or that he will be, laugh out loud, because damn, the Nuggets have earned a place in the West finals against Mr. Phil and his Lakers. Nene, say hello to Lamar Odom and Trevor Ariza.
George Karl hated game 5. The Nuggets threw his all defense, all the time script in the garbage for some old time religion. Game 5 was basketball. I loved game 5. The Nuggets played real basketball for a change, and I have been dreaming that the classic Carmelo Anthony would come back some day.
But the Los Angeles Lakers, who the Nuggets will most likely play in the West Finals, almost always play real basketball. They don’t, as the Nuggets do, look for shortcuts on offense and roughness to make up for any lack of defending skill on defense. They are the ultimate soul of basketball team.
The Lakers have won The Quest for the Ring 9 times, 13 times if you include the 4 times the Minneapolis Lakers won the Quest. The Lakers' current Coach, Phil Jackson, has also won the Quest 9 times. The Denver Nuggets of course have never won the Quest for the Ring.
MESSAGE TO CARMELO ANTHONY
Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant and the Lakers welcome you to the next level in the Quest for the Ring. You finally understood that you have to make decisions on your own, and perform better than everyone including your coach thinks you can. You have to show that neither you nor the game is limited in the way George Karl thinks. You have to be a little like Che Guevara, a little bit of a rebel.
Ultimately in the Quest, it is you and you alone who decides how specifically to try to win it.
But be aware there may not be a way to win it if the basics of your team are not right. I don't see the basics of your team being right, Mr. Carmelo Anthony. I have given my reasons in many reports.
But take your best shot. As the Quest nears it’s end, the coaches do fade into the background. Whatever good, and whatever bad, they have done, in setting the stage, is not something that anyone can change when game time in the Conference finals or the NBA championship has come.
So players such as Carmelo Anthony have to do whatever they can, based on what they decide, with the cards they have been dealt.
Game on.
[Editor's Note: Look for Real Player Ratings for each game in this series, and the other playoff series, in the weeks and months ahead. The Quest is now, among other objectives, serving as the year round "NBA playoffs site," and we will give you more detail about the playoff games than you can get elsewhere, but we are unable to do this as quickly as sites such as ESPN would do it, if they could and wanted to do it that is.]
You Can Post Your Response to Anything on Quest Here
Tuesday, May 12, 2009
Defenses, Fouling Rates, and Winning Championships, and Don't be Snookered About the Nuggets' 2008-09 Defense
Let's get things straight regarding the 2008-09 Nuggets defense. There are several myths about it, two of them huge:
MYTH: The Nuggets are one of the very best defensive teams in the NBA this year.
REALITY: This is false, unless you consider 8th best to be one of the very best. Seven teams all had better defenses this year. Here is the defensive efficiency for the top 15 teams (points allowed per 100 possessions, with the sample being more than 6,000 possessions) so even tiny differences mean a significant, real world difference:
DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY AND FOULS PER GAME
NBA BEST 15 DEFENSES
2008-09 SEASON
1 Orlando Magic 101.9//20.3 fouls per game
2 Boston Celtics 102.3//23.1 fouls per game
3 Cleveland Cavaliers 102.4//20.3 fouls per game
4 Houston Rockets 104.0//18.9 fouls per game
5 San Antonio Spurs 104.3//18.9 fouls per game
6 Los Angeles Lakers 104.7//20.7 fouls per game
7 Charlotte Bobcats 106.1//21.4 fouls per game
8 Denver Nuggets 106.8//22.9 fouls per game
9 New Orleans Hornets 107.0//20.3 fouls per game
10 Utah Jazz 107.2/22.3 fouls per game
11 Atlanta Hawks 107.6//19.6 fouls per game
12 Miami Heat 107.6//20.7 fouls per game
13 Portland Trail Blazers 107.8//20.4 fouls per game
14 Philadelphia 76ers 107.8//20.1 fouls per game
15 Milwaukee Bucks 107.9//24.2 fouls per game
As you can see, the Nuggets don't really have a top rated defense. Houston, the Lakers, the Magic, the Cavaliers, the Celtics, the Spurs, even the Bobcats have a more efficient defense this year. The Nuggets are fronting that they have the best defense; they are as much out to intimidate offensive players as they are to defeat them within the rules.
You know, you likely can not possibly have one of the very best defenses in the League if you insist on being one of the very fastest paced teams. You tell me how you are going to be one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA defensively while also being a very fast paced team. I honestly have no idea how you would do that. It seems to me that the Nuggets' strategies are not fitting together all that well here.
Notice too that the Nuggets have used a very large number of fouls this year, 22.9 fouls per game, or 1,875 fouls. This is much more than last year, when it was 21.1 fouls per game, or 1,730 fouls. Notice that seemingly small differences in the per game rate translate into a large number.
Remember always that an unknown number of fouls are not called. Quest is on a long term quest to come up with at least a very rough estimate of how many fouls are not called. Don't expect the results of that complicated investigation for awhile.
In fact, why don't we look at the complete list of fouls per game. You will notice that high rates of fouling are generally associated with losing teams, not winning teams.
But for the losing teams, the high rate of fouling is due mostly to lack of defensive skill, whereas the Nuggets, a way above average but not an extremely high defensive skills team as the Jazz are, have clearly adopted a high fouling rate intentionally.
The Nuggets are using what defensive skills they have in overdrive. They are fouling more than they should be based on their skill level. In order to win the Quest for the Ring, you have to correctly calibrate your fouling rate to your defensive skill level. The more highly skilled you are, the more fouls you are "entitled" to. And vice versa.
If you foul more times than you are entitled to, you will eventually run up against a brick wall formed by the League, the referees, and by the high quality offense you are playing in the playoffs. You will not win a Championship doing that.
A team in defensive overdrive leads to flagrant fouls, technical fouls, injuries, and pregame meetings between League officials and referees, so that marching orders can be given regarding how to keep the game under control. And probably other bad things, like loss of morale and enthusiasm.
FOULS PER GAME
2008-09 NBA Regular Season
Even tiny differences are significant
1 SanAntonioSpurs 18.85
2 HoustonRockets 18.94
3 TorontoRaptors 19.43
4 DallasMavericks 19.51
5 AtlantaHawks 19.65
6 LAClippers 20.12
7 Philadelphia76ers 20.12
8 OklahomaCityThunder 20.18
9 ClevelandCavaliers 20.28
10 OrlandoMagic 20.29
11 NOrleansHornets 20.30
12 PortlandTrailBlazers 20.38
13 NYKnicks 20.39
14 WashingtonWizards 20.48
15 PhoenixSuns 20.62
16 MiamiHeat 20.68
17 LALakers 20.71
18 ChicagoBulls 20.84
19 DetroitPistons 20.88
20 CharlotteBobcats 21.39
21 MemphisGrizzlies 21.67
22 MinnesotaT-wolves 21.77
23 UtahJazz 22.32
24 NJNets 22.41
25 GSWarriors 22.46
26 DenverNuggets 22.87
27 IndianaPacers 23.11
28 BostonCeltics 23.13
29 SacramentoKings 23.29
30 MilwaukeeBucks 24.22
A difference of .10 is 8 fouls, a difference of 1.00 is 82 fouls. Check this out for example. The Houston Rockets committed 1,553 fouls this season, whereas the Nuggets committed 1,875 fouls this season! And the Rockets finished as the 4th best defense (104.0 points allowed per 100 possessions) whereas the Nuggets finished as the 8th best defense (106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions).
So obviously you do not have to be a high fouling team to have a really good defense. Defenses can win Championships, but it is much easier for them to win them if they are medium or low fouling defenses than if they are high fouling defenses. Never forget that.
Very, very few Championships have been won by great defenses that are also high fouling defenses. The Celtics' 2008 Championship was one of only a tiny number of Championships won by a high fouling rate team.
And remember, not all fouls are even detected, so the differences between the fouling rates are understated. And also remember, there is an unwritten rule that officials can not call more than a grand total of between 50 and 70 fouls in a game, due to how extremely ugly the game gets (all free throws) if it goes beyond that. There has to be a limit.
DO YOU NEED TO BE A HIGH FOULING TEAM TO CONTEND FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP?
Definitely not. You are most definitely NOT supposed to have to be a high fouling team in order to contend for a Championship. You should generally not do what George Karl has done this year. You should not intentionally run up the foul counts, in an attempt to intimidate and "beat down" the other team, even if you know that by doing that you can get cheap, easy scores off of uncalled fouls.
Why not? Simply because sooner or later you will run into a brick wall. A team with a full scale offense and a quality defense will not be very much intimidated or disrupted by all the fouling, especially when they get very ticked off about it.
They will adapt by, for example, passing more and by driving into the lane in such a way that the referees are more likely to call a foul than not. There are different ways to drive, and some ways are better than others when it comes to getting the foul call. The best offensive teams know what to do to get those foul calls, even if it's like pulling teeth with a given crew of referees.
Also, sooner or later, the referrees will throw the book at you, although it may not be as soon as I thought, laugh out loud. How many games can you afford to just about forfeit when the referees do throw the book at you? You may not be able to afford any such games.
WHAT ABOUT THE CELTICS AND THE JAZZ?
The Celtics and the Jazz have high fouling rates also, so what's up with that?
The Utah Jazz have, according to the Defensive Subrating of the Real Player Ratings, five players with defensive skill levels higher than anyone on the Nuggets:
UTAH JAZZ DEFENDERS
DEFENDING SUBRATING
2008-09 SEASON
As of Feb. 25, 2009
Andrei Kirilenko 0.611
Matt Harpring 0.563
Brevin Knight 0.550
Kosta Koufos 0.547
Paul Millsap 0.529
Kyle Korver 0.461
Carlos Boozer 0.356
Mehmet Okur 0.291
Ronnie Price 0.271
Ronnie Brewer 0.225
Deron Williams 0.147
C.J. Miles 0.070
BOSTON CELTICS DEFENDERS
DEFENDING SUBRATING
2008-09 SEASON
As of Feb. 25, 2009
Kevin Garnett 0.539
Leon Powe 0.429
Gabe Pruitt 0.382
Kendrick Perkins 0.355
Rajon Rondo 0.328
Paul Pierce 0.322
Ray Allen 0.322
Tony Allen 0.290
Eddie House 0.277
Glen Davis 0.230
Brian Scalabrine 0.052
DENVER NUGGETS DEFENDERS
DEFENDING SUBRATING
2008-09 SEASON
As of Feb. 25, 2009
Nene Hilario 0.493
Chris Andersen 0.431
Kenyon Martin 0.415
J.R. Smith 0.409
Renaldo Balkman 0.379
Carmelo Anthony 0.362
Anthony Carter 0.329
Chauncey Billups† 0.293
Linas Kleiza 0.201
Dahntay Jones 0.195
THE UTAH JAZZ VERSUS THE DENVER NUGGETS DEFENSIVELY AND OVERALL
Notice that the Jazz are more loaded with very highly skilled defenders than are the Nuggets. This gives them a "license" to foul a lot and not be considered to be in the wrong.
You have the option to have a high fouling rate if you load up on defensively skilled players and expect to get wins with them. If you know for a fact you are one of the most defensively skilled teams in your League, in the top 15% or so, and your players prefer to play rough, than go ahead and have a high foul rate, if you have some luck and understanding from the refs then it might work out for you.
But you had better be sure you know how to keep on the good side of the refs.
But wait a minute, you say, the Nuggets loaded up on defensively skilled players and expected to get wins from them, so they should have a high fouling rate too, right?
Wrong, for several reasons. First, the Jazz have been loading their team like this for years and years, whereas the Nuggets are a Johnny come lately. The Nuggets have not learned how to run a heavy fouling defense without having the referees throw the book at them. Second, the Jazz' highly skilled defenders are very highly paid, established veterans who are well known by the referees. The Nuggets are not. Third, the Jazz' defenders are more skilled than are the Nuggets defenders; they have more skill to back up their fouling. Fourth, the Jazz run a traditional, conventional, high quality offense, whereas the Nuggets are trying to live off the fouls (the uncalled fouls to be exact) themselves on offense.
THE BOSTON CELTICS: THE 2007-08 CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM, IN 2008-09, AND VERSUS THE NUGGETS
As for the Celtics, even with Garnett they are this year not so much skilled defenders as they are rough and tough defenders in the Nuggets mode.
The Celtics were a high fouling team last year too, when they won the Quest. But they were a much more highly skilled team last year defensively than this year. Last year the Celtics allowed only 98.9 points per 100 possessions, while this year it is 102.3. Last year the Celtics were by a country mile the best defense in the NBA, so the risk they were running that the referees would throw the book at them for fouling a lot was low or very low.
But overall, the Nuggets are on the right track, because they are just doing what the Celtics have been doing? Right?
Wrong. Boston used the heavy fouling aspect of it's League leading defense more as an insurance policy to win the Championship than as the primary weapon to win it. The primary weapon was the extremely high quality defense itself.
Also, and just as importantly, the Celtics last year had a well run and powerful offense, spearheaded by Garnett down low, Ray Allen up high, Paul Pierce all over the place, and Rajon Rondo being a truly outstanding point guard. They had a relatively slow pace, and did not heavily rely on easy scores off of missed foul calls and long rebounds.
Although the Nuggets' offense this year is about as good as the Celtics' Quest winning offense was last year, the way they were run was completely different. The Celtics, unlike the Nuggets, did not heavily piggyback their offense on their defense.
During last years' Celtics' Quest, the Hawks took the Celtics to seven games in round one, the Cavaliers took the Celtics to seven games in round two, and the Pistons took the Celtics to six games in round three, before the Celtics won the Quest for the Ring by defeating the Lakers 4-2 in the 2008 Championsip. So obviously, even for the Celtics, with their much more traditional and conventional offense than the Nuggets have this year, and their far higher defensive quality, winning the Championship with a high fouling rate was a risky strategy.
It's substantially easier, and less risky along the way, to win a Championship with a medium or low fouling rate than it is to win one with a high fouling rate.
If you bring a quality offense to the court and you have a very high quality, intimidating defense that you know for sure can benefit from a high fouling rate, then go for it. If the refs don't like you for some reason you will not win a Championship that way. If you lose a game or two in a key series due to flagrant fouls, technical fouls, or a fight, you can be bounced out right there.
But if you know how to stay on the good side of the referees, and so they keep liking you, the Celtics and a tiny number of other Championship teams have demonstrated that you can win a ring even if you foul early and often.
How exactly you stay on the good side of the referees has been discussed from time to time at Quest, and will be again in the future.
But if your offense is based more on smoke and mirrors, if it's dependent almost completely on that high fouling defense and on fast breaking, then you really have no business running a high fouling rate defense, unless you have a Utah Jazz level of defender quality, unless in other words you have one of the very most highly skilled defensive teams.
If you do that, as the Nuggets are doing this year, whether or not the refs throw the book at you, and if they don't you might get a few playoff wins, you will not be winning a Championship with inadequate playmaking and no offensive identity in the traditional sense.
It is far, far easier to win a Chanmpionship with a quality offense that is not too far off the beaten track in terms of pace and playmaking, and with a medium or low fouling rate, than it is to win one with a high fouling rate and an offense fueled off of that.
Moreover, you can much more easily win a Championship with a great defense that has a low fouling rate than one that has a high fouling rate. Do not make the stupid mistake to think that you have to have a high fouling rate in order to have a high quality defense. Do not try to mock San Antonio for example, the joke will only be on you.
THE FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS OF THE SPURS
San Antonio won four Championships, in 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007, more so with defense than with offense. But they in every case committed a lot fewer fouls than their opponents did. And they did have a traditional, conventional, high quality offense, and one not highly dependent on their defense.
In summary, a high fouling rate is often a cheap shortcut that fails in the playoffs, with some exceptions as discussed in this report.
SUMMARY: PREREQUISITES FOR BEING A HIGH FOULING TEAM
1. You are one of the very best defensive teams in the NBA, one of top five at a rock bottom minimum, preferably one of the top three.
2. Your players prefer or are better at a rougher, higher fouling type of defending than a more skill oriented fouling.
3. The majority of your defensive players who you are going to allow to foul a lot are veterans who are well known by most of the referees to be skilled defensive players. And your veteran defensive players know how to remain on the good side of the referees. It's easy to tell how good any defensive player who has been given the green light to foul a lot is at staying on the good side of the referees: how often does he get into foul trouble? Foul trouble and especially fouling out has to be pretty rare, or you can not successfully use a high fouling strategy.
4. Though it does not have to be necessarily one of the best offenses in the League, you need to have a good quality offense that is not too far off the beaten track in terms of pace and the way it is run. It should have playmaking and offensive identity.
5. Your offense should not be excessively, extremely dependent on your defense.
If and only if you meet EVERY ONE of the above, as the Boston Celtics did last year, but as the Nuggets do not meet this year, go for it. Run the rough, heavy fouling type of defense. But don't get carried away now and end up thrown out of games!
SUMMARY OF THE NUGGETS 2008-09
George Karl's scheme this year, to put it simply, is to say to hell with offense, I don't even want to hear the word offense. I have never won a title, and I have decided to conduct this experiment where I see how far I can get with heavy duty fouling, and scoring as many easy points as possible off my defense.
When all is said and done, it's nothing more than a relatively cheap, short-cut way to run a team. On the other hand, it was enough for Denver to finally win a few playoff games, the first four of them though thanks also to New Orleans being the walking wounded, and one more of them due to the referees botching the intentional foul call at the end of game 3.
MYTH: The Denver Nuggets have a better defense this year than last year.
REALITY: The Nuggets had a better defense last year. That's right, you the fooled public. I repeat, the Nuggets had a better defense last year. Not a whole lot better, but better:
Nuggets 2008-09: 106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, 8th ranked in NBA
Nuggets 2007-08: 106.3 points allowed per 100 possessions, 10th ranked in NBA
But you see, to put it simply, last year the Nuggets did defense the right way. And this year they are doing it the wrong way.
The Nuggets started the 2009 playoffs by beating up on the walking wounded Hornets. But anyone can beat up on a heavily banged up team. So what?
THE CURRENT SITUATION
Last night, the Mavericks tied the series 2-2 with the Thuggets with a masterful 119-117 win over the supposedly top rated Denver defense. 119 points. And now it's 2-2 in this series.
Oh wait, the referees really, really have a lot of disturbing affection for the Thuggets, so it's not 2-2. My bad.
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MYTH: The Nuggets are one of the very best defensive teams in the NBA this year.
REALITY: This is false, unless you consider 8th best to be one of the very best. Seven teams all had better defenses this year. Here is the defensive efficiency for the top 15 teams (points allowed per 100 possessions, with the sample being more than 6,000 possessions) so even tiny differences mean a significant, real world difference:
DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY AND FOULS PER GAME
NBA BEST 15 DEFENSES
2008-09 SEASON
1 Orlando Magic 101.9//20.3 fouls per game
2 Boston Celtics 102.3//23.1 fouls per game
3 Cleveland Cavaliers 102.4//20.3 fouls per game
4 Houston Rockets 104.0//18.9 fouls per game
5 San Antonio Spurs 104.3//18.9 fouls per game
6 Los Angeles Lakers 104.7//20.7 fouls per game
7 Charlotte Bobcats 106.1//21.4 fouls per game
8 Denver Nuggets 106.8//22.9 fouls per game
9 New Orleans Hornets 107.0//20.3 fouls per game
10 Utah Jazz 107.2/22.3 fouls per game
11 Atlanta Hawks 107.6//19.6 fouls per game
12 Miami Heat 107.6//20.7 fouls per game
13 Portland Trail Blazers 107.8//20.4 fouls per game
14 Philadelphia 76ers 107.8//20.1 fouls per game
15 Milwaukee Bucks 107.9//24.2 fouls per game
As you can see, the Nuggets don't really have a top rated defense. Houston, the Lakers, the Magic, the Cavaliers, the Celtics, the Spurs, even the Bobcats have a more efficient defense this year. The Nuggets are fronting that they have the best defense; they are as much out to intimidate offensive players as they are to defeat them within the rules.
You know, you likely can not possibly have one of the very best defenses in the League if you insist on being one of the very fastest paced teams. You tell me how you are going to be one of the top 3-4 teams in the NBA defensively while also being a very fast paced team. I honestly have no idea how you would do that. It seems to me that the Nuggets' strategies are not fitting together all that well here.
Notice too that the Nuggets have used a very large number of fouls this year, 22.9 fouls per game, or 1,875 fouls. This is much more than last year, when it was 21.1 fouls per game, or 1,730 fouls. Notice that seemingly small differences in the per game rate translate into a large number.
Remember always that an unknown number of fouls are not called. Quest is on a long term quest to come up with at least a very rough estimate of how many fouls are not called. Don't expect the results of that complicated investigation for awhile.
In fact, why don't we look at the complete list of fouls per game. You will notice that high rates of fouling are generally associated with losing teams, not winning teams.
But for the losing teams, the high rate of fouling is due mostly to lack of defensive skill, whereas the Nuggets, a way above average but not an extremely high defensive skills team as the Jazz are, have clearly adopted a high fouling rate intentionally.
The Nuggets are using what defensive skills they have in overdrive. They are fouling more than they should be based on their skill level. In order to win the Quest for the Ring, you have to correctly calibrate your fouling rate to your defensive skill level. The more highly skilled you are, the more fouls you are "entitled" to. And vice versa.
If you foul more times than you are entitled to, you will eventually run up against a brick wall formed by the League, the referees, and by the high quality offense you are playing in the playoffs. You will not win a Championship doing that.
A team in defensive overdrive leads to flagrant fouls, technical fouls, injuries, and pregame meetings between League officials and referees, so that marching orders can be given regarding how to keep the game under control. And probably other bad things, like loss of morale and enthusiasm.
FOULS PER GAME
2008-09 NBA Regular Season
Even tiny differences are significant
1 SanAntonioSpurs 18.85
2 HoustonRockets 18.94
3 TorontoRaptors 19.43
4 DallasMavericks 19.51
5 AtlantaHawks 19.65
6 LAClippers 20.12
7 Philadelphia76ers 20.12
8 OklahomaCityThunder 20.18
9 ClevelandCavaliers 20.28
10 OrlandoMagic 20.29
11 NOrleansHornets 20.30
12 PortlandTrailBlazers 20.38
13 NYKnicks 20.39
14 WashingtonWizards 20.48
15 PhoenixSuns 20.62
16 MiamiHeat 20.68
17 LALakers 20.71
18 ChicagoBulls 20.84
19 DetroitPistons 20.88
20 CharlotteBobcats 21.39
21 MemphisGrizzlies 21.67
22 MinnesotaT-wolves 21.77
23 UtahJazz 22.32
24 NJNets 22.41
25 GSWarriors 22.46
26 DenverNuggets 22.87
27 IndianaPacers 23.11
28 BostonCeltics 23.13
29 SacramentoKings 23.29
30 MilwaukeeBucks 24.22
A difference of .10 is 8 fouls, a difference of 1.00 is 82 fouls. Check this out for example. The Houston Rockets committed 1,553 fouls this season, whereas the Nuggets committed 1,875 fouls this season! And the Rockets finished as the 4th best defense (104.0 points allowed per 100 possessions) whereas the Nuggets finished as the 8th best defense (106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions).
So obviously you do not have to be a high fouling team to have a really good defense. Defenses can win Championships, but it is much easier for them to win them if they are medium or low fouling defenses than if they are high fouling defenses. Never forget that.
Very, very few Championships have been won by great defenses that are also high fouling defenses. The Celtics' 2008 Championship was one of only a tiny number of Championships won by a high fouling rate team.
And remember, not all fouls are even detected, so the differences between the fouling rates are understated. And also remember, there is an unwritten rule that officials can not call more than a grand total of between 50 and 70 fouls in a game, due to how extremely ugly the game gets (all free throws) if it goes beyond that. There has to be a limit.
DO YOU NEED TO BE A HIGH FOULING TEAM TO CONTEND FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP?
Definitely not. You are most definitely NOT supposed to have to be a high fouling team in order to contend for a Championship. You should generally not do what George Karl has done this year. You should not intentionally run up the foul counts, in an attempt to intimidate and "beat down" the other team, even if you know that by doing that you can get cheap, easy scores off of uncalled fouls.
Why not? Simply because sooner or later you will run into a brick wall. A team with a full scale offense and a quality defense will not be very much intimidated or disrupted by all the fouling, especially when they get very ticked off about it.
They will adapt by, for example, passing more and by driving into the lane in such a way that the referees are more likely to call a foul than not. There are different ways to drive, and some ways are better than others when it comes to getting the foul call. The best offensive teams know what to do to get those foul calls, even if it's like pulling teeth with a given crew of referees.
Also, sooner or later, the referrees will throw the book at you, although it may not be as soon as I thought, laugh out loud. How many games can you afford to just about forfeit when the referees do throw the book at you? You may not be able to afford any such games.
WHAT ABOUT THE CELTICS AND THE JAZZ?
The Celtics and the Jazz have high fouling rates also, so what's up with that?
The Utah Jazz have, according to the Defensive Subrating of the Real Player Ratings, five players with defensive skill levels higher than anyone on the Nuggets:
UTAH JAZZ DEFENDERS
DEFENDING SUBRATING
2008-09 SEASON
As of Feb. 25, 2009
Andrei Kirilenko 0.611
Matt Harpring 0.563
Brevin Knight 0.550
Kosta Koufos 0.547
Paul Millsap 0.529
Kyle Korver 0.461
Carlos Boozer 0.356
Mehmet Okur 0.291
Ronnie Price 0.271
Ronnie Brewer 0.225
Deron Williams 0.147
C.J. Miles 0.070
BOSTON CELTICS DEFENDERS
DEFENDING SUBRATING
2008-09 SEASON
As of Feb. 25, 2009
Kevin Garnett 0.539
Leon Powe 0.429
Gabe Pruitt 0.382
Kendrick Perkins 0.355
Rajon Rondo 0.328
Paul Pierce 0.322
Ray Allen 0.322
Tony Allen 0.290
Eddie House 0.277
Glen Davis 0.230
Brian Scalabrine 0.052
DENVER NUGGETS DEFENDERS
DEFENDING SUBRATING
2008-09 SEASON
As of Feb. 25, 2009
Nene Hilario 0.493
Chris Andersen 0.431
Kenyon Martin 0.415
J.R. Smith 0.409
Renaldo Balkman 0.379
Carmelo Anthony 0.362
Anthony Carter 0.329
Chauncey Billups† 0.293
Linas Kleiza 0.201
Dahntay Jones 0.195
THE UTAH JAZZ VERSUS THE DENVER NUGGETS DEFENSIVELY AND OVERALL
Notice that the Jazz are more loaded with very highly skilled defenders than are the Nuggets. This gives them a "license" to foul a lot and not be considered to be in the wrong.
You have the option to have a high fouling rate if you load up on defensively skilled players and expect to get wins with them. If you know for a fact you are one of the most defensively skilled teams in your League, in the top 15% or so, and your players prefer to play rough, than go ahead and have a high foul rate, if you have some luck and understanding from the refs then it might work out for you.
But you had better be sure you know how to keep on the good side of the refs.
But wait a minute, you say, the Nuggets loaded up on defensively skilled players and expected to get wins from them, so they should have a high fouling rate too, right?
Wrong, for several reasons. First, the Jazz have been loading their team like this for years and years, whereas the Nuggets are a Johnny come lately. The Nuggets have not learned how to run a heavy fouling defense without having the referees throw the book at them. Second, the Jazz' highly skilled defenders are very highly paid, established veterans who are well known by the referees. The Nuggets are not. Third, the Jazz' defenders are more skilled than are the Nuggets defenders; they have more skill to back up their fouling. Fourth, the Jazz run a traditional, conventional, high quality offense, whereas the Nuggets are trying to live off the fouls (the uncalled fouls to be exact) themselves on offense.
THE BOSTON CELTICS: THE 2007-08 CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM, IN 2008-09, AND VERSUS THE NUGGETS
As for the Celtics, even with Garnett they are this year not so much skilled defenders as they are rough and tough defenders in the Nuggets mode.
The Celtics were a high fouling team last year too, when they won the Quest. But they were a much more highly skilled team last year defensively than this year. Last year the Celtics allowed only 98.9 points per 100 possessions, while this year it is 102.3. Last year the Celtics were by a country mile the best defense in the NBA, so the risk they were running that the referees would throw the book at them for fouling a lot was low or very low.
But overall, the Nuggets are on the right track, because they are just doing what the Celtics have been doing? Right?
Wrong. Boston used the heavy fouling aspect of it's League leading defense more as an insurance policy to win the Championship than as the primary weapon to win it. The primary weapon was the extremely high quality defense itself.
Also, and just as importantly, the Celtics last year had a well run and powerful offense, spearheaded by Garnett down low, Ray Allen up high, Paul Pierce all over the place, and Rajon Rondo being a truly outstanding point guard. They had a relatively slow pace, and did not heavily rely on easy scores off of missed foul calls and long rebounds.
Although the Nuggets' offense this year is about as good as the Celtics' Quest winning offense was last year, the way they were run was completely different. The Celtics, unlike the Nuggets, did not heavily piggyback their offense on their defense.
During last years' Celtics' Quest, the Hawks took the Celtics to seven games in round one, the Cavaliers took the Celtics to seven games in round two, and the Pistons took the Celtics to six games in round three, before the Celtics won the Quest for the Ring by defeating the Lakers 4-2 in the 2008 Championsip. So obviously, even for the Celtics, with their much more traditional and conventional offense than the Nuggets have this year, and their far higher defensive quality, winning the Championship with a high fouling rate was a risky strategy.
It's substantially easier, and less risky along the way, to win a Championship with a medium or low fouling rate than it is to win one with a high fouling rate.
If you bring a quality offense to the court and you have a very high quality, intimidating defense that you know for sure can benefit from a high fouling rate, then go for it. If the refs don't like you for some reason you will not win a Championship that way. If you lose a game or two in a key series due to flagrant fouls, technical fouls, or a fight, you can be bounced out right there.
But if you know how to stay on the good side of the referees, and so they keep liking you, the Celtics and a tiny number of other Championship teams have demonstrated that you can win a ring even if you foul early and often.
How exactly you stay on the good side of the referees has been discussed from time to time at Quest, and will be again in the future.
But if your offense is based more on smoke and mirrors, if it's dependent almost completely on that high fouling defense and on fast breaking, then you really have no business running a high fouling rate defense, unless you have a Utah Jazz level of defender quality, unless in other words you have one of the very most highly skilled defensive teams.
If you do that, as the Nuggets are doing this year, whether or not the refs throw the book at you, and if they don't you might get a few playoff wins, you will not be winning a Championship with inadequate playmaking and no offensive identity in the traditional sense.
It is far, far easier to win a Chanmpionship with a quality offense that is not too far off the beaten track in terms of pace and playmaking, and with a medium or low fouling rate, than it is to win one with a high fouling rate and an offense fueled off of that.
Moreover, you can much more easily win a Championship with a great defense that has a low fouling rate than one that has a high fouling rate. Do not make the stupid mistake to think that you have to have a high fouling rate in order to have a high quality defense. Do not try to mock San Antonio for example, the joke will only be on you.
THE FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS OF THE SPURS
San Antonio won four Championships, in 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007, more so with defense than with offense. But they in every case committed a lot fewer fouls than their opponents did. And they did have a traditional, conventional, high quality offense, and one not highly dependent on their defense.
In summary, a high fouling rate is often a cheap shortcut that fails in the playoffs, with some exceptions as discussed in this report.
SUMMARY: PREREQUISITES FOR BEING A HIGH FOULING TEAM
1. You are one of the very best defensive teams in the NBA, one of top five at a rock bottom minimum, preferably one of the top three.
2. Your players prefer or are better at a rougher, higher fouling type of defending than a more skill oriented fouling.
3. The majority of your defensive players who you are going to allow to foul a lot are veterans who are well known by most of the referees to be skilled defensive players. And your veteran defensive players know how to remain on the good side of the referees. It's easy to tell how good any defensive player who has been given the green light to foul a lot is at staying on the good side of the referees: how often does he get into foul trouble? Foul trouble and especially fouling out has to be pretty rare, or you can not successfully use a high fouling strategy.
4. Though it does not have to be necessarily one of the best offenses in the League, you need to have a good quality offense that is not too far off the beaten track in terms of pace and the way it is run. It should have playmaking and offensive identity.
5. Your offense should not be excessively, extremely dependent on your defense.
If and only if you meet EVERY ONE of the above, as the Boston Celtics did last year, but as the Nuggets do not meet this year, go for it. Run the rough, heavy fouling type of defense. But don't get carried away now and end up thrown out of games!
SUMMARY OF THE NUGGETS 2008-09
George Karl's scheme this year, to put it simply, is to say to hell with offense, I don't even want to hear the word offense. I have never won a title, and I have decided to conduct this experiment where I see how far I can get with heavy duty fouling, and scoring as many easy points as possible off my defense.
When all is said and done, it's nothing more than a relatively cheap, short-cut way to run a team. On the other hand, it was enough for Denver to finally win a few playoff games, the first four of them though thanks also to New Orleans being the walking wounded, and one more of them due to the referees botching the intentional foul call at the end of game 3.
MYTH: The Denver Nuggets have a better defense this year than last year.
REALITY: The Nuggets had a better defense last year. That's right, you the fooled public. I repeat, the Nuggets had a better defense last year. Not a whole lot better, but better:
Nuggets 2008-09: 106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, 8th ranked in NBA
Nuggets 2007-08: 106.3 points allowed per 100 possessions, 10th ranked in NBA
But you see, to put it simply, last year the Nuggets did defense the right way. And this year they are doing it the wrong way.
The Nuggets started the 2009 playoffs by beating up on the walking wounded Hornets. But anyone can beat up on a heavily banged up team. So what?
THE CURRENT SITUATION
Last night, the Mavericks tied the series 2-2 with the Thuggets with a masterful 119-117 win over the supposedly top rated Denver defense. 119 points. And now it's 2-2 in this series.
Oh wait, the referees really, really have a lot of disturbing affection for the Thuggets, so it's not 2-2. My bad.
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Monday, May 11, 2009
How the Nuggets Became the Thuggets, and Kenyon Martin as a Thug Against Dallas
You think I might be overboard on saying the Nuggets are a danger to basketball as we know it? You think I don't know them like the back of my hand? Well your wrong if you think I don't know.
The Nuggets organization has been on a roundabout, long-term mission to become a "tougher team" ever since they understandably developed an inferiority complex about not being able to compete with the powerhouses of the West: the three Texas teams, the Lakers, the Jazz, and the Suns too for that matter. When they in 2004 acquired Kenyon Martin for huge compensation, it was under the theory that they could perhaps tough their way to being a competitive franchise. At the very least, they could avoid 20-62 type seasons and become respectable.
But the making of the Nuggets into tough guys would require many more steps, and the overcoming of many more roadblocks. To go nicely with Kenyon Martin, they needed a new tough minded Coach. They needed to get rid of their failed all fast breaks, all the time offense only coaches and bring in a Coach who believed in defense and toughness.
George Karl was available. He had a reputation as being a defensive coach, if only because he doesn't understand or doesn't believe in offensive strategy in basketball. So although Karl was persona non grata everywhere else, he was hired by the Nuggets in January 2005.
But on to another problem for the Nuggets to become tough guys. Carmelo Anthony, picked number three in the 2004 draft by the Nuggets, is an offensive powerhouse by nature, not a defensive powerhouse. And he is not really a thug by nature, he's not called Melo for nothing. He only seems to be a thug when he gets goofy, like during and after parties, like anyone can including possibly even me.
But George Karl,on a mission to make the Nuggets tough, and convinced that power scorers are weak and not well rounded players (Michael Jordan, you were weak according to Karl, laugh out loud) was bound and determined to make Carmelo Anthony less of a scorer and more of a tough guy.
But George Karl was unable to change Anthony quickly; it took him years to convince Anthony that he should not try to be like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, that he should become a more "well rounded player," whatever that is. He finally succeeded late in the 2007-08 season and continuing into this season, 2008-09. This year Carmelo Anthony was no longer a power scorer; both his scoring and his scoring accuracy dropped off in 2008-09.
Yet another roadblock in the way of the Nuggets becoming the Thuggets was when owner Stan Kroenke miscalculated badly that Allen Iverson would lead to huge surges in ticket and merchandise sales in Colorado. Iverson was acquired from the Philadelphia 76'ers in December 2006 in a trade, mainly for point guard Andre Miller.
But Colorado has more than it's share of Iverson haters, and the big surge in sales that was expected never materialized. Quest for the Ring has shown that the Nuggets were never serious about trying to win a Championship with Allen Iverson; they made no reasonable basketball effort to do so. The whole Iverson thing was nothing more than a failed marketing ploy.
Becoming the Thuggets was still quite out of reach while Allen Iverson was on the team from December 2006 until November 2008, although as has been reported at Quest extensively George Karl during this period achieved his long term objective: he downsized Carmelo Anthony from power scorer to some sort of "all around player," whatever that is.
But once the failed marketing campaign was ended, once in other words Allen Iverson was off the team, traded for expert and highly experienced point guard Chauncey Billups in November 2008, and once the highly defensively skilled but very unthuggish Marcus Camby was given away for nothing, the Nuggets could now finally become the Thuggets without the constraints of catering to highly skilled superstars who don't believe in thuggish or even rough and tough basketball.
In the backcourt the Nuggets are mostly tough without being clearly thuggish. Chauncey Billups is an excellent, tough basketball player, not at all a thug. Anthony Carter is not one either, like Billups he too is very tough mentally, and gives 110%. At least that much.
JR Smith has been treated by George Karl as if he is a thug, but Smith's main problem is that he is immature and impulsive, though less so now than before. Smith is sort of like Carmelo Anthony as far as the thug quotient goes: he's a part time thug.
But the Nuggets acquired a bona fide guard thug for almost no money in the summer of 2008: Dahntay Jones (yes, I spelled it right). Jones' big thing is trying to get under the skin of the players he is defending, especially good point guards, by constantly roughing them up and trash talking to them.
Chris Paul was hounded mercilessly by Dahntay Jones during the Nuggets win over the walking wounded Hornets in the injured teams are washed out round of the 2009 playoffs.
Jones played the role of guard attack dog for the Nuggets this season, with attacks up to and including the stealing of a game against Phoenix when he tripped Grant Hill with seconds left as Hill was driving in for the winning score with Phoenix down by a single point. Yet Grant Hill was not given the free throws that would have won the game for Phoenix! Dahntay Jones' trip actually succeeded at winning a game for the Nuggets that really was a Phoenix win.
Which by the way, means that Denver is not really the second seed in this year's playoffs at all. They are really the fourth seed, at best.
So Denver had a lot of tough guys, and some part time thugs. But aside from Martin and Jones, they had no other bona fide, full time thugs. They needed a third one.
The final piece Denver needed to be tough and thuggish was a another thuggish forward to go along with Kenyon Martin and the now at least slightly thuggish Carmelo Anthony up front, since starting Center Nene, although not a skills only guy, is not a thug either.
When they acquired power forward Chris Andersen for almost no money in the summer of 2008, the Denver Nuggets definitely had their quota of thug power achieved.
Andersen has been on a mission to redeem himself from being kicked out of the League for abuse of an illegal substance. Although I will be the first to admit he is skilled defensively and can jump practically to the moon (and you need at least one player who can jump higher than almost everyone else to have any chance of all of winning a Championship) Andersen is not exactly someone who really cares about whether he fouls or not when trying to stop a score: he is out to stop it any way possible, and he takes as much pride in committing fouls that are not called against him as he does in clean blocks that he makes. Andersen simply doesn't care about the nuances of what is a foul and what is not a foul. Marcus Camby he definitely is not.
Nor does he care about the fact that he can not be part of a team-oriented strategic offense, because he has no jump shot to speak of, relatively poor ability to drive and draw fouls, and little ability to pass well for that matter.
Yet Denver, by basing their entire offense on their defense, has been remarkably and extremely successfull in being able to use Andersen, Dahntay Jones, and also Renaldo Balkman, yet another defensive specialist, and a more highly skilled one than either Andersen or Jones, as offensive weapons. All of these defensive specialists have been able to over and over easily score off an amazingly large number of fast breaks generated by uncalled fouls, long rebounds often followed by long outlet passes, by blocks, by steals, and by a few rugby scrums to boot.
Andersen has also been an outstanding offensive rebounder. Correction, he is not so much an offensive rebounder as your worst nightmare if you are not an energetic defensive rebounder. Numerous defensive rebounders have had their would be rebounds snatched by Andersen in mid-air for aborted defensive rebounds turned in to yet more easy Denver scores.
Whether or not Andersen is literally a thug in conjunction with substance abuse, he is a thug in the basketball sense, since he is a defense only player who does not care how many fouls or goal tends he commits. The same and worse is true with Dahntay Jones.
Now Kenyon Martin is a real thug through and through, and everyone knows it. Very early in game one of this year's Denver-Dallas series, he virtually threw Dirk Nowitzki to the floor head or shoulders first, but the referees were asleep at the switch in that game, so no technical or flagrant was called. Unlike in game 4, the referees were not under marching orders from the NBA to keep the game "under control".
After the game, the NBA corrected the referees mistake and upgraded the foul to a flagrant one. The NBA fined Kenyon Martin $25,000 for the obvious attempt to, if not injure Dirk Nowitzki, to at least intimidate him in in a grossly unsportsmanlike way.
But Dirk Nowitzki is hardly someone you can intimidate into submission, and he has been absolutely brilliant in the series.
In case you doubt whether Kenyon Martin is a bona fide thug, at least when pressured by fiery and Quest for the Ring-like Dallas owner Marc Cuban, here is Kenyon Martin himself speaking at tonight's Mavericks-Nuggets game, won by the Mavericks with a masterfull offensive performance, 119-117.
From J.E. Skeetts at Yahoo Sports and the Ball Don't Lie basketball site:
Can some group of people stop the Thuggets before they start to attract monkey see, monkey do copy cat teams. Like the referees, or the Lakers, or even the Rockets. Will someone step up here and please put an end to this?
Otherwise, we will be buried in fouls, free throws, technical fouls, flagrant fouls, injuries from fouls, and at least a few brawls next season.
You Can Post Your Response to Anything on Quest Here
The Nuggets organization has been on a roundabout, long-term mission to become a "tougher team" ever since they understandably developed an inferiority complex about not being able to compete with the powerhouses of the West: the three Texas teams, the Lakers, the Jazz, and the Suns too for that matter. When they in 2004 acquired Kenyon Martin for huge compensation, it was under the theory that they could perhaps tough their way to being a competitive franchise. At the very least, they could avoid 20-62 type seasons and become respectable.
But the making of the Nuggets into tough guys would require many more steps, and the overcoming of many more roadblocks. To go nicely with Kenyon Martin, they needed a new tough minded Coach. They needed to get rid of their failed all fast breaks, all the time offense only coaches and bring in a Coach who believed in defense and toughness.
George Karl was available. He had a reputation as being a defensive coach, if only because he doesn't understand or doesn't believe in offensive strategy in basketball. So although Karl was persona non grata everywhere else, he was hired by the Nuggets in January 2005.
But on to another problem for the Nuggets to become tough guys. Carmelo Anthony, picked number three in the 2004 draft by the Nuggets, is an offensive powerhouse by nature, not a defensive powerhouse. And he is not really a thug by nature, he's not called Melo for nothing. He only seems to be a thug when he gets goofy, like during and after parties, like anyone can including possibly even me.
But George Karl,on a mission to make the Nuggets tough, and convinced that power scorers are weak and not well rounded players (Michael Jordan, you were weak according to Karl, laugh out loud) was bound and determined to make Carmelo Anthony less of a scorer and more of a tough guy.
But George Karl was unable to change Anthony quickly; it took him years to convince Anthony that he should not try to be like LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, that he should become a more "well rounded player," whatever that is. He finally succeeded late in the 2007-08 season and continuing into this season, 2008-09. This year Carmelo Anthony was no longer a power scorer; both his scoring and his scoring accuracy dropped off in 2008-09.
Yet another roadblock in the way of the Nuggets becoming the Thuggets was when owner Stan Kroenke miscalculated badly that Allen Iverson would lead to huge surges in ticket and merchandise sales in Colorado. Iverson was acquired from the Philadelphia 76'ers in December 2006 in a trade, mainly for point guard Andre Miller.
But Colorado has more than it's share of Iverson haters, and the big surge in sales that was expected never materialized. Quest for the Ring has shown that the Nuggets were never serious about trying to win a Championship with Allen Iverson; they made no reasonable basketball effort to do so. The whole Iverson thing was nothing more than a failed marketing ploy.
Becoming the Thuggets was still quite out of reach while Allen Iverson was on the team from December 2006 until November 2008, although as has been reported at Quest extensively George Karl during this period achieved his long term objective: he downsized Carmelo Anthony from power scorer to some sort of "all around player," whatever that is.
But once the failed marketing campaign was ended, once in other words Allen Iverson was off the team, traded for expert and highly experienced point guard Chauncey Billups in November 2008, and once the highly defensively skilled but very unthuggish Marcus Camby was given away for nothing, the Nuggets could now finally become the Thuggets without the constraints of catering to highly skilled superstars who don't believe in thuggish or even rough and tough basketball.
In the backcourt the Nuggets are mostly tough without being clearly thuggish. Chauncey Billups is an excellent, tough basketball player, not at all a thug. Anthony Carter is not one either, like Billups he too is very tough mentally, and gives 110%. At least that much.
JR Smith has been treated by George Karl as if he is a thug, but Smith's main problem is that he is immature and impulsive, though less so now than before. Smith is sort of like Carmelo Anthony as far as the thug quotient goes: he's a part time thug.
But the Nuggets acquired a bona fide guard thug for almost no money in the summer of 2008: Dahntay Jones (yes, I spelled it right). Jones' big thing is trying to get under the skin of the players he is defending, especially good point guards, by constantly roughing them up and trash talking to them.
Chris Paul was hounded mercilessly by Dahntay Jones during the Nuggets win over the walking wounded Hornets in the injured teams are washed out round of the 2009 playoffs.
Jones played the role of guard attack dog for the Nuggets this season, with attacks up to and including the stealing of a game against Phoenix when he tripped Grant Hill with seconds left as Hill was driving in for the winning score with Phoenix down by a single point. Yet Grant Hill was not given the free throws that would have won the game for Phoenix! Dahntay Jones' trip actually succeeded at winning a game for the Nuggets that really was a Phoenix win.
Which by the way, means that Denver is not really the second seed in this year's playoffs at all. They are really the fourth seed, at best.
So Denver had a lot of tough guys, and some part time thugs. But aside from Martin and Jones, they had no other bona fide, full time thugs. They needed a third one.
The final piece Denver needed to be tough and thuggish was a another thuggish forward to go along with Kenyon Martin and the now at least slightly thuggish Carmelo Anthony up front, since starting Center Nene, although not a skills only guy, is not a thug either.
When they acquired power forward Chris Andersen for almost no money in the summer of 2008, the Denver Nuggets definitely had their quota of thug power achieved.
Andersen has been on a mission to redeem himself from being kicked out of the League for abuse of an illegal substance. Although I will be the first to admit he is skilled defensively and can jump practically to the moon (and you need at least one player who can jump higher than almost everyone else to have any chance of all of winning a Championship) Andersen is not exactly someone who really cares about whether he fouls or not when trying to stop a score: he is out to stop it any way possible, and he takes as much pride in committing fouls that are not called against him as he does in clean blocks that he makes. Andersen simply doesn't care about the nuances of what is a foul and what is not a foul. Marcus Camby he definitely is not.
Nor does he care about the fact that he can not be part of a team-oriented strategic offense, because he has no jump shot to speak of, relatively poor ability to drive and draw fouls, and little ability to pass well for that matter.
Yet Denver, by basing their entire offense on their defense, has been remarkably and extremely successfull in being able to use Andersen, Dahntay Jones, and also Renaldo Balkman, yet another defensive specialist, and a more highly skilled one than either Andersen or Jones, as offensive weapons. All of these defensive specialists have been able to over and over easily score off an amazingly large number of fast breaks generated by uncalled fouls, long rebounds often followed by long outlet passes, by blocks, by steals, and by a few rugby scrums to boot.
Andersen has also been an outstanding offensive rebounder. Correction, he is not so much an offensive rebounder as your worst nightmare if you are not an energetic defensive rebounder. Numerous defensive rebounders have had their would be rebounds snatched by Andersen in mid-air for aborted defensive rebounds turned in to yet more easy Denver scores.
Whether or not Andersen is literally a thug in conjunction with substance abuse, he is a thug in the basketball sense, since he is a defense only player who does not care how many fouls or goal tends he commits. The same and worse is true with Dahntay Jones.
Now Kenyon Martin is a real thug through and through, and everyone knows it. Very early in game one of this year's Denver-Dallas series, he virtually threw Dirk Nowitzki to the floor head or shoulders first, but the referees were asleep at the switch in that game, so no technical or flagrant was called. Unlike in game 4, the referees were not under marching orders from the NBA to keep the game "under control".
After the game, the NBA corrected the referees mistake and upgraded the foul to a flagrant one. The NBA fined Kenyon Martin $25,000 for the obvious attempt to, if not injure Dirk Nowitzki, to at least intimidate him in in a grossly unsportsmanlike way.
But Dirk Nowitzki is hardly someone you can intimidate into submission, and he has been absolutely brilliant in the series.
In case you doubt whether Kenyon Martin is a bona fide thug, at least when pressured by fiery and Quest for the Ring-like Dallas owner Marc Cuban, here is Kenyon Martin himself speaking at tonight's Mavericks-Nuggets game, won by the Mavericks with a masterfull offensive performance, 119-117.
From J.E. Skeetts at Yahoo Sports and the Ball Don't Lie basketball site:
I either fell asleep for two minutes or TNT didn't air this, but Art Garcia of the NBA.com Playoff Blog reports Martin came to the defense of his mother, Lydia, who is sitting about six rows up near the Denver end, while officials were reviewing a play in the second quarter. Apparently, K-Mart unleashed hell at the Dallas fans sitting around her:
"You [expletive] better cut the [expletive]," he shouted, as team personnel tried to pull him back to the huddle. "You’re going to get [expletive] up."
Martin then said to his mother: "Somebody do something to you, you better tell me. I’m going to [expletive] somebody up."
Security came to the area to speak with Martin's mom, but she remained in her seat. Yikes.
Can some group of people stop the Thuggets before they start to attract monkey see, monkey do copy cat teams. Like the referees, or the Lakers, or even the Rockets. Will someone step up here and please put an end to this?
Otherwise, we will be buried in fouls, free throws, technical fouls, flagrant fouls, injuries from fouls, and at least a few brawls next season.
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Stop the Denver Nuggets Before They Change Basketball for the Worse
[This is a fast break type of posting, a short post needed to be pushed out the door quickly to be timely. In the great majority of cases, a fast break posting is followed up by much longer articles, that will contain a lot of proof for all made in the fast breaks. Remember that many Quest reports have much more detail than this one; Quest for the Ring prides itself on game, team, and League breakdowns that are as long as necessary to make and prove the points.]
The Thuggets, or the Nuggets, if you insist, need to be defeated as soon as possible. If they win the West, there will be a lot of flagrant fouls and fights in basketball in coming years, as teams copy the Thuggets' style of fouling on most inside drives by the other team. And then eventually flagrants and fights will become much more common as players get sick and tired of being fouled over and over and over again.
The Nuggets, and I thanks to them, have discovered that a team can win games by "overloading the referees." In other words, they have discovered that the referees can only call so many fouls in a game, or the game gets to be ridiculous and very ugly. The NBA loses a good product for the public if a massive number of fouls are called. Who wants to watch players shoot free throws all night?
Plus the referees, if they call fouls beyond the unwritten limit, are going to be questioned by their bosses at NBA headquarters. If they call fouls beyond the unwritten limit, they might not be promoted when a promotion is due.
So knowing there is an unwritten but real limit on the number of fouls that can be called, the Nuggets go past the limit, and so some of their fouls can not be called.
The real world unwritten limit on the number of fouls that can be called in a game is anywhere from 25 to at the very most 40 fouls on any one team, and between 50 to 70 fouls in a game in total. The exact limit in a particular game will depend on the referee crew, the game, where it is played, and who knows what other variables.
My theory earlier this year was that since the referees in the playoffs are experienced and highly ranked, that they would look at Denver as a team trying to substitute roughness for skill (which is what they are doing by the way). And that they would as a result not be afraid to "contain" the Nuggets, and to call fouls in a quantity close to the limit if needed.
This is what happened in at least fifteen regular season games.
But this was proved wrong in both games 1 and 2 of the Nuggets-Mavericks playoff series, when the referees were not all that interested in calling fouls in general, let alone in getting up toward the limit. I'll grant you that the Nuggets were using more skill and less fouling than I expected. And that's probably the reason right there why the referees were very easy on them.
But the Nuggets were still using a great deal of fouling, and they were definitely the beneficiaries of a lot of uncalled fouls in both of the first two games, most especially in game one. Meanwhile, Dallas, ironically, was called for numerous touch fouls.
Dallas obviously is following traditional basketball, not the Rough Basketball that Denver is seeing how far they can get with.
In game 3, the referees finally did what I predicted they would do in the playoffs. They buried the Nuggets with fouls: 34 of them, and sure enough, the Nuggets lost.
But actually the Nuggets officially won, because the referees botched an intentional foul call with a few seconds left. There is no limit to the amount of luck the Nuggets have received this season; it must be some kind of a record, but "luck" records are not kept so we can not know for sure.
Many cliches are myths, but the cliche that fewer fouls are called in the playoffs than in the regular season, which I thought was a myth,laugh at me if you have to, may be a reality after all.
I am going to research this and get to the bottom of this crucial subject in the near future. Of course I will report the results here.
So by overloading the referees, at least in games where their defending skill level is low, the Nuggets are disrespecting the traditions of basketball. The 1989 Pistons and all other supposedly rough defenses did not take things to the extreme that Denver has. Moreover, the 1989 Pistons and other famous Championship winners and Championship losing teams had better defenses, and therefore more skilled defenses, than Denver does this year.
Much, much more about this later; look for unbelievably interesting stuff about the 30 NBA Championship winners and the 30 NBA Championship losers since the introduction of the 3-point shot for the 1979-80 season.
Here is where all of this leads. Don't make basketball like football or hockey, please. I think there should be another popular sport besides baseball that features a lot of skill and almost no violence.
We need two sports where it's all skill and strategy and no outright violence. Fouling on the vast majority of in the paint shot attempts spoils basketball.
Go ahead, call me a wuss for wanting basketball to remain a skill sport rather than a sport decided by who is more violent or rough on the court. Go ahead and do that, make my day. That's what I want to be, a wuss, if that is what you are for wanting to maintain basketball as a skill and strategy sport rather than a violent sport.
The bottom line is that basketball will be changed for the worse, at least temporarily, if the Nuggets defeat the Lakers or the Rockets in the West final this year. Because there will be copycats if that happens: monkey see, monkey do's.
So I am very much hoping and expecting that the Nuggets will lose, and that the traditions of basketball will be upheld and will continue on, so that everyone can enjoy a truly great sport of skill and strategy.
You Can Post Your Response to Anything on Quest Here
The Thuggets, or the Nuggets, if you insist, need to be defeated as soon as possible. If they win the West, there will be a lot of flagrant fouls and fights in basketball in coming years, as teams copy the Thuggets' style of fouling on most inside drives by the other team. And then eventually flagrants and fights will become much more common as players get sick and tired of being fouled over and over and over again.
The Nuggets, and I thanks to them, have discovered that a team can win games by "overloading the referees." In other words, they have discovered that the referees can only call so many fouls in a game, or the game gets to be ridiculous and very ugly. The NBA loses a good product for the public if a massive number of fouls are called. Who wants to watch players shoot free throws all night?
Plus the referees, if they call fouls beyond the unwritten limit, are going to be questioned by their bosses at NBA headquarters. If they call fouls beyond the unwritten limit, they might not be promoted when a promotion is due.
So knowing there is an unwritten but real limit on the number of fouls that can be called, the Nuggets go past the limit, and so some of their fouls can not be called.
The real world unwritten limit on the number of fouls that can be called in a game is anywhere from 25 to at the very most 40 fouls on any one team, and between 50 to 70 fouls in a game in total. The exact limit in a particular game will depend on the referee crew, the game, where it is played, and who knows what other variables.
My theory earlier this year was that since the referees in the playoffs are experienced and highly ranked, that they would look at Denver as a team trying to substitute roughness for skill (which is what they are doing by the way). And that they would as a result not be afraid to "contain" the Nuggets, and to call fouls in a quantity close to the limit if needed.
This is what happened in at least fifteen regular season games.
But this was proved wrong in both games 1 and 2 of the Nuggets-Mavericks playoff series, when the referees were not all that interested in calling fouls in general, let alone in getting up toward the limit. I'll grant you that the Nuggets were using more skill and less fouling than I expected. And that's probably the reason right there why the referees were very easy on them.
But the Nuggets were still using a great deal of fouling, and they were definitely the beneficiaries of a lot of uncalled fouls in both of the first two games, most especially in game one. Meanwhile, Dallas, ironically, was called for numerous touch fouls.
Dallas obviously is following traditional basketball, not the Rough Basketball that Denver is seeing how far they can get with.
In game 3, the referees finally did what I predicted they would do in the playoffs. They buried the Nuggets with fouls: 34 of them, and sure enough, the Nuggets lost.
But actually the Nuggets officially won, because the referees botched an intentional foul call with a few seconds left. There is no limit to the amount of luck the Nuggets have received this season; it must be some kind of a record, but "luck" records are not kept so we can not know for sure.
Many cliches are myths, but the cliche that fewer fouls are called in the playoffs than in the regular season, which I thought was a myth,laugh at me if you have to, may be a reality after all.
I am going to research this and get to the bottom of this crucial subject in the near future. Of course I will report the results here.
So by overloading the referees, at least in games where their defending skill level is low, the Nuggets are disrespecting the traditions of basketball. The 1989 Pistons and all other supposedly rough defenses did not take things to the extreme that Denver has. Moreover, the 1989 Pistons and other famous Championship winners and Championship losing teams had better defenses, and therefore more skilled defenses, than Denver does this year.
Much, much more about this later; look for unbelievably interesting stuff about the 30 NBA Championship winners and the 30 NBA Championship losers since the introduction of the 3-point shot for the 1979-80 season.
Here is where all of this leads. Don't make basketball like football or hockey, please. I think there should be another popular sport besides baseball that features a lot of skill and almost no violence.
We need two sports where it's all skill and strategy and no outright violence. Fouling on the vast majority of in the paint shot attempts spoils basketball.
Go ahead, call me a wuss for wanting basketball to remain a skill sport rather than a sport decided by who is more violent or rough on the court. Go ahead and do that, make my day. That's what I want to be, a wuss, if that is what you are for wanting to maintain basketball as a skill and strategy sport rather than a violent sport.
The bottom line is that basketball will be changed for the worse, at least temporarily, if the Nuggets defeat the Lakers or the Rockets in the West final this year. Because there will be copycats if that happens: monkey see, monkey do's.
So I am very much hoping and expecting that the Nuggets will lose, and that the traditions of basketball will be upheld and will continue on, so that everyone can enjoy a truly great sport of skill and strategy.
You Can Post Your Response to Anything on Quest Here
Sunday, May 10, 2009
The NBA Apologizes to you and to Quest for the Ring for Their Referees
[This is a fast break type of posting, a short post needed to be pushed out the door quickly to be timely. In the great majority of cases, a fast break posting is followed up by much longer articles, that will contain a lot of proof for any points made in the fast breaks. Remember that many Quest reports have much more detail than this one; Quest for the Ring prides itself on game, team, and League breakdowns that are as long as necessary to make and prove the points.]
Quest for the Ring reported on several occasions this season that the Denver Nuggets were going to be "contained" in the NBA playoffs by referees sticking up for the rules. It did not happen, and for all practical purposes, the Nuggets have been cheating to make sure they win playoff games.
The irony is that Denver has had so much luck, including playing Dallas while the Lakers had to play the much better Houston Rockets, (which is backwards since the Lakers had the far better record over Denver, so in a strict seeding system, the Lakers would have played Dallas and the Nuggets would have played Houston) that Denver did not have to in effect cheat in order to win. They probably could have won without cheating.
But they have been cheating. They have been committing numerous fouls that have not been called. They have been cheating the soul of basketball by basing their offense entirely on their defense, meaning they have no real offense, and meaning that the offense that you see is a smoke and mirrors type of mirage, it seems to be there, but it actually is not really there. If you look behind the curtain, there is nothing there, whereas for example the Lakers and the Cavaliers have real offenses that exist separately from their defenses.
In other words, the Denver Nuggets' offense is an artificial creation that is virtually a fraud.
I can't quit watching games but I wish I could at this moment. No, on second thought, I can not wait until the Lakers defeat these Nuggets, who think they can win an NBA Championship by committing more fouls than any team ever did including the 1989 Pistons Championship team. More generally, they think they can win an NBA Championship by using strategy right out of the Pittsburgh Steelers system for winning Super Bowls.
Wrong Sport, Denver, you are not the Broncos, and you are most definitely not the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I have been saying "laugh out loud, Denver," to this scheme, but quite frankly, I'm not going to be laughing anymore until the Lakers put this madness to rest. The Nuggets are attempting to change basketball at this point, to make it much more like football, to spoil it in other words, and I want it stopped.
I honestly think there will be at least several flagrant fouls in the LA/Denver series, and am half expecting a fight at this point. The Lakers will not be intimidated and they will not go down without a fight. They will not let Chris Andersen do whatever he wants, let alone Dahntay Jones (spelled it right). If these Nuggets want to fight, they will get a fight from the Lakers. Literally.
I will grant you that Denver was using more defensive skill and less fouling in games 1 and 2 than in many regular season games, but nonetheless, in game one, fouls just were not being called to any extent, period. Which made it impossible for Dallas to win.
In game two, Dallas but not Denver was being called for too many touch fouls. What an obnoxious irony that was! Once again, it was impossible for Dallas to win that game.
Now as for game 3, this is the kind of game that needs to be watched probably three times from start to finish before making many summary judgments. But having said that, I knew for a fact that the referees were going to go much harder on the Nuggets in Dallas than they were on them in Denver. Because the refs might as well not have been there in Denver.
The referees obviously did stand up for the game more in game 3. However, even so, the game apparently gets decided on some bizarre non-call.
What an ugly, stupid game that was. And an ugly, stupid series. And an ugly, stupid team, for that matter. How many fouls would the Nuggets need to commit in order to beat the Lakers? 60 fouls a game? Yes, it would be about that many, with only half of them called, since the Nuggets would have no players left if all of them were called, laugh out loud.
Just screw George Karl and Denver at this point. Trying to win a Championship while basically disrespecting the game of basketball, by for example having no offense separate from the defense. Denver, doing what you do, coming up with a new way to make basketball look bad every year, you would still be a punk franchise compared to Boston, Los Angeles, Detroit, San Antonio, Houston, Seattle (which doesn't even have a team anymore, but they are still more respectable than Denver) and others, even if you did win a damn Championship, which you will not.
Go back to the ABA if you want to play basketball as if it was football.
Much, much more on these subjects later.
On behalf of basketball, I apologize to Quest for the Ring readers for the failure of the NBA referees to properly stand up for the game of basketball during the 2009 Dallas Mavericks-Denver Nuggets playoff series.
Also, the League apologizes:
The apology is appreciated, but sorry, it's not enough. I want the last seconds played over again and the win properly given to the Dallas Mavericks.
Fortunately, according to my calculations and knowledge, there is almost a zero probability that the Nuggets can beat the Lakers no matter what they do, no matter how many rules they break.
So I guess I don't have to bother saying that were the Nuggets to win the Conference, that it would be a tainted win.
But I guess I just did say that.
Source
You Can Post Your Response to Anything on Quest Here
Quest for the Ring reported on several occasions this season that the Denver Nuggets were going to be "contained" in the NBA playoffs by referees sticking up for the rules. It did not happen, and for all practical purposes, the Nuggets have been cheating to make sure they win playoff games.
The irony is that Denver has had so much luck, including playing Dallas while the Lakers had to play the much better Houston Rockets, (which is backwards since the Lakers had the far better record over Denver, so in a strict seeding system, the Lakers would have played Dallas and the Nuggets would have played Houston) that Denver did not have to in effect cheat in order to win. They probably could have won without cheating.
But they have been cheating. They have been committing numerous fouls that have not been called. They have been cheating the soul of basketball by basing their offense entirely on their defense, meaning they have no real offense, and meaning that the offense that you see is a smoke and mirrors type of mirage, it seems to be there, but it actually is not really there. If you look behind the curtain, there is nothing there, whereas for example the Lakers and the Cavaliers have real offenses that exist separately from their defenses.
In other words, the Denver Nuggets' offense is an artificial creation that is virtually a fraud.
I can't quit watching games but I wish I could at this moment. No, on second thought, I can not wait until the Lakers defeat these Nuggets, who think they can win an NBA Championship by committing more fouls than any team ever did including the 1989 Pistons Championship team. More generally, they think they can win an NBA Championship by using strategy right out of the Pittsburgh Steelers system for winning Super Bowls.
Wrong Sport, Denver, you are not the Broncos, and you are most definitely not the Pittsburgh Steelers.
I have been saying "laugh out loud, Denver," to this scheme, but quite frankly, I'm not going to be laughing anymore until the Lakers put this madness to rest. The Nuggets are attempting to change basketball at this point, to make it much more like football, to spoil it in other words, and I want it stopped.
I honestly think there will be at least several flagrant fouls in the LA/Denver series, and am half expecting a fight at this point. The Lakers will not be intimidated and they will not go down without a fight. They will not let Chris Andersen do whatever he wants, let alone Dahntay Jones (spelled it right). If these Nuggets want to fight, they will get a fight from the Lakers. Literally.
I will grant you that Denver was using more defensive skill and less fouling in games 1 and 2 than in many regular season games, but nonetheless, in game one, fouls just were not being called to any extent, period. Which made it impossible for Dallas to win.
In game two, Dallas but not Denver was being called for too many touch fouls. What an obnoxious irony that was! Once again, it was impossible for Dallas to win that game.
Now as for game 3, this is the kind of game that needs to be watched probably three times from start to finish before making many summary judgments. But having said that, I knew for a fact that the referees were going to go much harder on the Nuggets in Dallas than they were on them in Denver. Because the refs might as well not have been there in Denver.
The referees obviously did stand up for the game more in game 3. However, even so, the game apparently gets decided on some bizarre non-call.
What an ugly, stupid game that was. And an ugly, stupid series. And an ugly, stupid team, for that matter. How many fouls would the Nuggets need to commit in order to beat the Lakers? 60 fouls a game? Yes, it would be about that many, with only half of them called, since the Nuggets would have no players left if all of them were called, laugh out loud.
Just screw George Karl and Denver at this point. Trying to win a Championship while basically disrespecting the game of basketball, by for example having no offense separate from the defense. Denver, doing what you do, coming up with a new way to make basketball look bad every year, you would still be a punk franchise compared to Boston, Los Angeles, Detroit, San Antonio, Houston, Seattle (which doesn't even have a team anymore, but they are still more respectable than Denver) and others, even if you did win a damn Championship, which you will not.
Go back to the ABA if you want to play basketball as if it was football.
Much, much more on these subjects later.
On behalf of basketball, I apologize to Quest for the Ring readers for the failure of the NBA referees to properly stand up for the game of basketball during the 2009 Dallas Mavericks-Denver Nuggets playoff series.
Also, the League apologizes:
The NBA admitted officials were wrong when they didn’t call an intentional foul the Dallas Mavericks were trying to commit before Denver’s Carmelo Anthony(notes) made a game-winning 3-pointer Saturday.
Dallas had a two-point lead and a foul to give when Denver inbounded the ball with less than 8 seconds left. Antoine Wright(notes) was clearly trying to foul Anthony, and bumped him twice.
But the whistle never blew and Anthony swished a 3-pointer from in front of the Dallas bench with a second left that gave the Nuggets a 106-105 victory and a 3-0 series lead.
“At the end of the Dallas-Denver game this evening, the officials missed an intentional foul committed by Antoine Wright on Carmelo Anthony, just prior to Anthony’s three-point basket,” Joel Litvin, NBA president of league and basketball operations, said in a statement issued by the league about two hours after the game.
“It’s a shame the game had to come down to this, but that’s the way it goes in the NBA sometimes,” Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said in an e-mail to The Associated Press after the league’s statement.
Cuban was visibly upset on the court after the game, but had declined comment while standing just outside the Mavericks’ locker room.
In the aftermath of the scandal involving former referee Tim Donaghy, the NBA has begun publicly acknowledging certain officiating mistakes.
Donaghy is serving a prison sentence for betting on games he officiated and taking cash payments from gambling associates for information to help them with bets.
A day after Game 4 of the Western Conference finals last year, the NBA said a foul should have been called against Derek Fisher(notes) of the Los Angeles Lakers on the final possession. That could have given San Antonio a chance to win the game and get even in the series.
Fisher jumped and came down on Brent Barry(notes) in the final seconds of a two-point game. No foul was called and Barry missed badly on a 3-pointer as time expired.
Mark Wunderlich, one of the three officials for that game last year, was part of the crew for the Denver-Dallas game Saturday night and was the one closest to Wright and Anthony.
“I’m almost as disappointed for Mark as I am for us. … It’s a call he makes 100 percent of the time,” Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle said after Saturday’s game.
Added Wright: “I was positive a whistle was coming, just like everybody else was positive the whistle was coming. I made a play on the ball like I was told in the huddle, and the call wasn’t made. … I’m upset like everyone else in this locker room, and I feel like we have a right to be upset.”
The apology is appreciated, but sorry, it's not enough. I want the last seconds played over again and the win properly given to the Dallas Mavericks.
Fortunately, according to my calculations and knowledge, there is almost a zero probability that the Nuggets can beat the Lakers no matter what they do, no matter how many rules they break.
So I guess I don't have to bother saying that were the Nuggets to win the Conference, that it would be a tainted win.
But I guess I just did say that.
Source
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BASKETBALL SITES THAT ARE OPEN FOR CONTENT FROM ANYONE
Note: Beware of "layered" sites. None of the following are layered sites, which are sites that allow contributions from the public only in hard to find, low traffic areas, while the main areas are off limits for public input and are only for a chosen few. All of the following have at least some notable traffic, and all of them allow relatively equal and open participation. The order is from most recommended to least recommended, based on about half a dozen factors.
Bleacher Report Open Posting Site
Inside Hoops NBA Forum
Real GM NBA and Team Forums
Pro Sports Daily NBA Forum
Basketball Forum NBA Forum
Sporting News NBA Forum
Hoops Hype NBA Forum
Armchair GM Open Posting Site
SportsTwo NBA Forum
NBA Dimensions NBA Forum
OTR Basketball Forums NBA Forum
NBA Boards NBA Forum
NBA Wire NBA Forum
KFFL NBA Forum
Note: there are other forums, but they are all very low traffic and activity compared to the ones above.
MESSAGE BOARDS AT HUGE COROPORATIONS
The Fox NBA board is very low traffic, and the MSNBC NBA board doesn't exist anymore. The CBS Sports NBA Message Board is a layered site; you can NOT post topics nor expect to be considered seriously there until you have spent a few years posting there. We do not recommend CBS Sports. So the only real, fully open NBA forum hosted by a big corporation is the ESPN message board. Be forewarned though that the ESPN board is dominated by very young fans who make very short comments. On the other hand, it is a high traffic site, so we won't stop you from posting a Quest link at ESPN if you want to.
ESPN NBA Message Board
LAKERS SIGN IN HOLLYWOOD
>>>I WANT TO STICK WITH THE WAY OTHER SITES PRESENT POSTS
Due to the number of, uniqueness of, and importance of the many other home page features we have, only one Report loads at a time, currently the one just above. To see the next Report (which would be the one that came out just before the one above) on this home page, click "Older Posts" that is at the very bottom of the Report showing above, just above the section header "Your Ball: Take Your Best Shot".
>>ALTERNATIVE HOME PAGES
There are three home pages, all of which have all of the Reports but which have completely different features appearing on the sidebar and below the one Report that is shown at a time. These pages have been designed so that they fully load in about 10 seconds (no more super long load times we used to be known for.)
HOME PAGE A: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
HOME PAGE B: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
HOME PAGE C: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
>>REPORT READERS: Complete freedom to rapidly choose and read what you need or want to read. The latest 40 Reports are found near the top of all three of the primary home pages (linked to just above) while Reports #41-#100 are found in three separate readers placed at various points down the page on all three primary home pages.
>>EXPRESS VERSION: Every Single Report but no Features: a Fast Loading Page: Click Here
>>FAST BREAK VERSION: The Latest 100 Reports via Report Readers Only; no Features, a Fast Loading Page: Click Here
>>QUEST ARCHIVE HOME PAGES--REPORT ARCHIVES AND A SMALL NUMBER OF CLASSIC FEATURES THAT WON'T FIT ON OTHER HOME PAGES
QUEST 4: REPORTS 101-200
QUEST 5: REPORTS 201-300
QUEST 6: REPORTS 301-400
QUEST 7: REPORTS 401-500
QUEST 8: REPORTS 501-600
QUEST 9: REPORTS 601-700
QUEST 10: REPORTS 701-800
>>FEATURES ONLY HOME PAGES: NO REPORTS, JUST FEATURES THAT WE CAN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE
QUEST OVERTIME
QUEST CLASSIC
>>COMPLETE TITLE INDEX: : A Complete Report Title Index, with Express Version Links to all Reports
>>LATEST 25 Reports: Direct links to the latest 25 Reports (with no truncated titles as you find with the poorly designed Google archive). This is located near the very bottom of this page.
>>GOOGLE ARCHIVE you will find this, with Reports shown by week not very far below.
>>I'M NEW AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WANT TO GO: Welcome to the Real Zone. Simply browse the page and see for yourself what is here. You will not be disappointed.
>>OR YOU CAN DO A CUSTOM GOOGLE SEARCH OF THE 13 BOOKS AND COUNTING CONTAINED ON THIS SITE>>>>>
Due to the number of, uniqueness of, and importance of the many other home page features we have, only one Report loads at a time, currently the one just above. To see the next Report (which would be the one that came out just before the one above) on this home page, click "Older Posts" that is at the very bottom of the Report showing above, just above the section header "Your Ball: Take Your Best Shot".
>>ALTERNATIVE HOME PAGES
There are three home pages, all of which have all of the Reports but which have completely different features appearing on the sidebar and below the one Report that is shown at a time. These pages have been designed so that they fully load in about 10 seconds (no more super long load times we used to be known for.)
HOME PAGE A: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
HOME PAGE B: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
HOME PAGE C: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
>>REPORT READERS: Complete freedom to rapidly choose and read what you need or want to read. The latest 40 Reports are found near the top of all three of the primary home pages (linked to just above) while Reports #41-#100 are found in three separate readers placed at various points down the page on all three primary home pages.
>>EXPRESS VERSION: Every Single Report but no Features: a Fast Loading Page: Click Here
>>FAST BREAK VERSION: The Latest 100 Reports via Report Readers Only; no Features, a Fast Loading Page: Click Here
>>QUEST ARCHIVE HOME PAGES--REPORT ARCHIVES AND A SMALL NUMBER OF CLASSIC FEATURES THAT WON'T FIT ON OTHER HOME PAGES
QUEST 4: REPORTS 101-200
QUEST 5: REPORTS 201-300
QUEST 6: REPORTS 301-400
QUEST 7: REPORTS 401-500
QUEST 8: REPORTS 501-600
QUEST 9: REPORTS 601-700
QUEST 10: REPORTS 701-800
>>FEATURES ONLY HOME PAGES: NO REPORTS, JUST FEATURES THAT WE CAN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE
QUEST OVERTIME
QUEST CLASSIC
>>COMPLETE TITLE INDEX: : A Complete Report Title Index, with Express Version Links to all Reports
>>LATEST 25 Reports: Direct links to the latest 25 Reports (with no truncated titles as you find with the poorly designed Google archive). This is located near the very bottom of this page.
>>GOOGLE ARCHIVE you will find this, with Reports shown by week not very far below.
>>I'M NEW AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WANT TO GO: Welcome to the Real Zone. Simply browse the page and see for yourself what is here. You will not be disappointed.
>>OR YOU CAN DO A CUSTOM GOOGLE SEARCH OF THE 13 BOOKS AND COUNTING CONTAINED ON THIS SITE>>>>>
SEARCH THE QUEST FOR THE RING--THE EQUIVALENT OF MORE THAN 15 BOOKS ABOUT BASKETBALL
Custom Search
SEARCH THE 15 BOOKS / 1.5 MILLION WORDSCOMPLETE AND ALWAYS UPDATED DIRECTORY OF ALL QUEST FOR THE RING REPORTS ON ONE PAGE >>>
TWO WAYS TO LOOK AT HOW LONG QUEST FOR THE RING HAS BEEN KEEPING IT REAL
The above shows you in two different ways the exact amount of time since The Quest for the Ring began to completely explain how the Quest is won, while having as much fun as possible at the expense of basketball pretenders and player haters. The first panel shows how long it has been in each of seven units. The second panel shows how long it has been in the more usual "remainder" way.
QUEST FOR THE RING SOMETIMES GOES INTO HIATUS
Regardless of any temporary unavoidable absences, the Quest is in this project to explain in detail for the very long term--indefinitely, for many, many, many years ahead. At this writing we have the equivalent of 15 basketball books under our belt and we plan on doing dozens more. Count on us being right where basketball is at, which is here, actually.
QUEST FOR THE RING SOMETIMES GOES INTO HIATUS
Regardless of any temporary unavoidable absences, the Quest is in this project to explain in detail for the very long term--indefinitely, for many, many, many years ahead. At this writing we have the equivalent of 15 basketball books under our belt and we plan on doing dozens more. Count on us being right where basketball is at, which is here, actually.
Blog Archive
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2011
(75)
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2010
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2009
(210)
- ► 12/27 - 01/03 (2)
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- ► 05/24 - 05/31 (3)
- ► 05/17 - 05/24 (6)
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▼
05/10 - 05/17
(7)
- What the Nuggets Have to do to Validate George Kar...
- The Lakers, the Nuggets, the Rockets, and Some Rea...
- The Nuggets Play Real Basketball in Game 5 of the ...
- Defenses, Fouling Rates, and Winning Championships...
- How the Nuggets Became the Thuggets, and Kenyon Ma...
- Stop the Denver Nuggets Before They Change Basketb...
- The NBA Apologizes to you and to Quest for the Rin...
- ► 05/03 - 05/10 (7)
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2008
(174)
- ► 12/28 - 01/04 (7)
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- ► 12/07 - 12/14 (11)
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- ► 11/09 - 11/16 (1)
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- ► 10/19 - 10/26 (5)
- ► 10/12 - 10/19 (1)
- ► 10/05 - 10/12 (21)
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- ► 07/13 - 07/20 (1)
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- ► 01/20 - 01/27 (4)
- ► 01/13 - 01/20 (9)
- ► 01/06 - 01/13 (3)
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2007
(166)
- ► 12/30 - 01/06 (3)
- ► 12/23 - 12/30 (5)
- ► 12/16 - 12/23 (4)
- ► 12/09 - 12/16 (2)
- ► 12/02 - 12/09 (9)
- ► 11/25 - 12/02 (9)
- ► 11/18 - 11/25 (8)
- ► 11/11 - 11/18 (11)
- ► 11/04 - 11/11 (11)
- ► 10/28 - 11/04 (10)
- ► 10/21 - 10/28 (3)
- ► 10/14 - 10/21 (6)
- ► 10/07 - 10/14 (5)
- ► 09/30 - 10/07 (6)
- ► 09/23 - 09/30 (4)
- ► 08/05 - 08/12 (1)
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- ► 07/15 - 07/22 (8)
- ► 07/08 - 07/15 (1)
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- ► 03/04 - 03/11 (3)
- ► 02/25 - 03/04 (4)
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- ► 02/11 - 02/18 (3)
- ► 02/04 - 02/11 (4)
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- ► 01/21 - 01/28 (4)
- ► 01/14 - 01/21 (2)
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2006
(18)
- ► 12/31 - 01/07 (3)
- ► 12/24 - 12/31 (3)
- ► 12/17 - 12/24 (3)
- ► 12/10 - 12/17 (4)
- ► 12/03 - 12/10 (3)
- ► 11/26 - 12/03 (2)
QUEST REPORTS #41 TO #60, GOING BACK IN TIME
QUEST IS FREE BUT ABOUT 3 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME CAN GET YOU MORE OF IT
Although there is a guaranteed minimum rate of Report production regardless of traffic, it is in your power to help increase the number of and frequency of Quest Reports. All Quest sites are developed and produced according to both superseding criteria and site traffic. Like all sites started in recent years, Quest receives very little help from Google and other search engines. The search engines mostly serve to keep the older, popular sites popular; they preserve the same old, same old status quo.
The amount of reporting and the frequency of Quest Reports could easily be double what it is were site traffic higher. If Quest obtained the traffic we know it deserves, than production would go from the equivalent of roughly three books about basketball a year to at least five and to as many as six books a year!
WE NEED A GRAND TOTAL OF ABOUT 3 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME
Please take three or four minutes every now and then to recommend Quest and post links to Quest on your favorite sports and other sites. In other words, wherever possible use us to back up what you are posting and writing. The resulting automatic increase of traffic will in turn increase the resources that go in to producing Quest home page Reports. After helping us, feel free to e-mail how you helped and we will throw some Internet love back to your Internet hangout. The email address is thequestforthering1. This is a gmail address, so you use @gmail.com after that address.
The amount of reporting and the frequency of Quest Reports could easily be double what it is were site traffic higher. If Quest obtained the traffic we know it deserves, than production would go from the equivalent of roughly three books about basketball a year to at least five and to as many as six books a year!
WE NEED A GRAND TOTAL OF ABOUT 3 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME
Please take three or four minutes every now and then to recommend Quest and post links to Quest on your favorite sports and other sites. In other words, wherever possible use us to back up what you are posting and writing. The resulting automatic increase of traffic will in turn increase the resources that go in to producing Quest home page Reports. After helping us, feel free to e-mail how you helped and we will throw some Internet love back to your Internet hangout. The email address is thequestforthering1. This is a gmail address, so you use @gmail.com after that address.
QUEST FOR THE RING USER GUIDE
QUEST FOR THE RING USER GUIDE: YOU CAN QUICKLY LOCATE AND GET THE SITE INFORMATION YOU NEED OR WANT RIGHT HERE
LATEST 25 REPORTS THREE AT A TIME -- TO LOAD THE NEXT THREE, CLICK ">" AT THE TOP ON THE RIGHT
QUEST REPORTS #61 TO #80, GOING BACK IN TIME
WORD IS BOND
WELCOME TO THE QUEST--THINGS ARE VERY DIFFERENT HERE
WELCOME TO THE QUEST FOR THE RING, ALSO KNOWN AS THE REAL ZONE
This is one of the most serious basketball sites on the internet, focusing on how and why playoff games and NBA Championships are won. We also love to take comedy and music breaks, but not every day.
WELCOME TO THE QUEST FOR THE RING. YOU HAVE LEFT THE HYPE ZONE AND HAVE ARRIVED IN THE REAL ZONE. Please check any rose colored glasses at the door. The Hype Zone is where you can find out about the personalities and the styles and how popular they are and what they are up to lately. The Real Zone is where we DO NOT think personalities and styles and how popular or unpopular they are things to waste time on just for ratings or traffic.
Instead of hype, here we post as much truth about how NBA playoff games and Championships are won as we can 365 days a year and at at any hour of the day or night. Please have a productive visit, and a nice trip back to the Hype Zone when your visit is over.
A SMALL SAMPLE OF CURRENT AND SOON TO COME QUEST FOR THE RING REAL ZONE TOPICS
--How and Why the 2010 Los Angeles Lakers, the 2010 Cleveland Cavaliers, and the 2010 Boston Celtics Win or Lose in the 2010 Playoffs
--The right "amount of" LeBron James
--How players we know deserve to win a first or second Ring can get one, highly talented players such as Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, Rajon Rondo, and Dwyane Wade.
--How and why the Denver Nuggets Franchise has repeatedly fooled the public, and possibly themselves for that matter. (No, we still have not completely finished with the Nuggets, thanks to how successful they were in 2008-09, albeit there was no chance of a Championship; Continuing, much done already)
--How and why much of what you may think you know about Allen Iverson is dead wrong (Continuing, much done already)
--How and why the playoffs are something completely different from the regular season, and why your team may be simply not prepared for them despite a lot of regular season wins
A SMALL SAMPLE OF ALREADY COMPLETED QUEST FOR THE RING REAL ZONE TOPICS
--How and why Carmelo Anthony has been downsized due to a quest for "well-roundedness," and why this is really bad
--How and why the owner of the Nuggets shortchanged and cheated his team out of a possible Championship
--How and why being physical alone can not win you a Championship
--How and why the Nuggets' high fouling defense will take them only so far
--How and why George Karl is doing more harm than good with respect to J.R. Smith
--How and why George Karl's obsession with personalities is wrong and bad for any team
--How and why George Karl and the Nuggets can not win in the playoffs (2007, 2008) or a West final (2009). If Quest commits a foul, we own up to it, as we do right here: we thought the Nuggets could not win in the playoffs in 2009. They did win 10 games before being eliminated by the Lakers in the West final, so in response we corrected our evaluation of what you can do with the Nuggets' unique 2009 approach to basketball without, however, going overboard.
--How and why George Karl cheats the fans and the franchise out of performance and development of "reserve" players
--How and why playmaking is so important, probably more than you think, and how you manage playmakers correctly.
--How and why you have probably been fooled regarding the Nuggets' 2008 off-season and their 2008-09 defense
UNIQUE SITE DESIGN
The Quest is organized in a completely different way from what you are used to on the internet. We have combined the best features of the blog and the conventional web site formats, the latter being the norm for large organizations. However, since we do not like the idea of using flash to "wow" visitors, we do not use flash except within video and other discrete components. So we are state of the art in terms of expanding the power of visitors to get exactly what they want very quickly, but we do not have the latest flash gadgetry just to "keep up with the Joneses". More broadly, you will find that Quest for the Ring never seeks to keep up with the Joneses, simply because the Joneses never had the nerve and the intelligence to do what we do.
2009: A PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION COMES TO QUEST
Just before the 2009-10 season tipped, the very large number of features and links to important resources were strategically reorganized and placed within an easy to use and clearly labelled section system. So ended the era of the rapidly developed, sprawling and slightly disorganized Quest, and so began the era of the big but under careful control and extremely well organized and professional Quest for the Ring.
The Quest Home Page consists of numerous types of content, organized carefully into the new sections as of November 2009. Features can be any educational and / or entertaining thing you can think of, including everything from music players to videos to photos to breaking NBA news readers to top teams performance breakdown pages.
Quest for the Ring has a world class link system for those who know what they are looking for and wish to find and engage the appropriate link, But the Quest visitor does not HAVE to hunt for links to have an intelligent and entertaining experience. The Quest home page is big enough and chock loaded enough that link hunting is not absolutely necessary the way it normally is at many other basketball sites.
THERE MUST BE TEN WAYS TO READ REPORTS [PAUL SIMON LOL]
There are close to ten ways to find out about, select, and read Quest Reports! The standard, traditional blog presentation is available as one of the many ways to choose, access, and read reports. On the Home Page, only one report loads in the traditional format in order to keep this page as quick loading as possible.
See the "Total Freedom of Navigation" section for complete details about how to find, choose, and read reports.
One key place to find Older Reports is on sequentially numbered url's thequestforthering2.blogspot.com, thequestforthering3.blogspot.com, and so forth.
THE QUEST USER GUIDE VERSUS an about page
Other sites most often have undeveloped and limited in scope "about pages" which is usually all they have for what we call a "User Guide". Our User Guide material is a vast improvement, quantitatively and qualitatively, over a mere "about page" While many other sites don't help their visitors to make the best use of the content, we do. Also, the User Guide is chock loaded with invitations to visitors to participate in all kinds of ways, including for example advertising for free, link exchange, and getting a team site supported by Quest.
This is one of the most serious basketball sites on the internet, focusing on how and why playoff games and NBA Championships are won. We also love to take comedy and music breaks, but not every day.
WELCOME TO THE QUEST FOR THE RING. YOU HAVE LEFT THE HYPE ZONE AND HAVE ARRIVED IN THE REAL ZONE. Please check any rose colored glasses at the door. The Hype Zone is where you can find out about the personalities and the styles and how popular they are and what they are up to lately. The Real Zone is where we DO NOT think personalities and styles and how popular or unpopular they are things to waste time on just for ratings or traffic.
Instead of hype, here we post as much truth about how NBA playoff games and Championships are won as we can 365 days a year and at at any hour of the day or night. Please have a productive visit, and a nice trip back to the Hype Zone when your visit is over.
A SMALL SAMPLE OF CURRENT AND SOON TO COME QUEST FOR THE RING REAL ZONE TOPICS
--How and Why the 2010 Los Angeles Lakers, the 2010 Cleveland Cavaliers, and the 2010 Boston Celtics Win or Lose in the 2010 Playoffs
--The right "amount of" LeBron James
--How players we know deserve to win a first or second Ring can get one, highly talented players such as Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, Rajon Rondo, and Dwyane Wade.
--How and why the Denver Nuggets Franchise has repeatedly fooled the public, and possibly themselves for that matter. (No, we still have not completely finished with the Nuggets, thanks to how successful they were in 2008-09, albeit there was no chance of a Championship; Continuing, much done already)
--How and why much of what you may think you know about Allen Iverson is dead wrong (Continuing, much done already)
--How and why the playoffs are something completely different from the regular season, and why your team may be simply not prepared for them despite a lot of regular season wins
A SMALL SAMPLE OF ALREADY COMPLETED QUEST FOR THE RING REAL ZONE TOPICS
--How and why Carmelo Anthony has been downsized due to a quest for "well-roundedness," and why this is really bad
--How and why the owner of the Nuggets shortchanged and cheated his team out of a possible Championship
--How and why being physical alone can not win you a Championship
--How and why the Nuggets' high fouling defense will take them only so far
--How and why George Karl is doing more harm than good with respect to J.R. Smith
--How and why George Karl's obsession with personalities is wrong and bad for any team
--How and why George Karl and the Nuggets can not win in the playoffs (2007, 2008) or a West final (2009). If Quest commits a foul, we own up to it, as we do right here: we thought the Nuggets could not win in the playoffs in 2009. They did win 10 games before being eliminated by the Lakers in the West final, so in response we corrected our evaluation of what you can do with the Nuggets' unique 2009 approach to basketball without, however, going overboard.
--How and why George Karl cheats the fans and the franchise out of performance and development of "reserve" players
--How and why playmaking is so important, probably more than you think, and how you manage playmakers correctly.
--How and why you have probably been fooled regarding the Nuggets' 2008 off-season and their 2008-09 defense
UNIQUE SITE DESIGN
The Quest is organized in a completely different way from what you are used to on the internet. We have combined the best features of the blog and the conventional web site formats, the latter being the norm for large organizations. However, since we do not like the idea of using flash to "wow" visitors, we do not use flash except within video and other discrete components. So we are state of the art in terms of expanding the power of visitors to get exactly what they want very quickly, but we do not have the latest flash gadgetry just to "keep up with the Joneses". More broadly, you will find that Quest for the Ring never seeks to keep up with the Joneses, simply because the Joneses never had the nerve and the intelligence to do what we do.
2009: A PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION COMES TO QUEST
Just before the 2009-10 season tipped, the very large number of features and links to important resources were strategically reorganized and placed within an easy to use and clearly labelled section system. So ended the era of the rapidly developed, sprawling and slightly disorganized Quest, and so began the era of the big but under careful control and extremely well organized and professional Quest for the Ring.
The Quest Home Page consists of numerous types of content, organized carefully into the new sections as of November 2009. Features can be any educational and / or entertaining thing you can think of, including everything from music players to videos to photos to breaking NBA news readers to top teams performance breakdown pages.
Quest for the Ring has a world class link system for those who know what they are looking for and wish to find and engage the appropriate link, But the Quest visitor does not HAVE to hunt for links to have an intelligent and entertaining experience. The Quest home page is big enough and chock loaded enough that link hunting is not absolutely necessary the way it normally is at many other basketball sites.
THERE MUST BE TEN WAYS TO READ REPORTS [PAUL SIMON LOL]
There are close to ten ways to find out about, select, and read Quest Reports! The standard, traditional blog presentation is available as one of the many ways to choose, access, and read reports. On the Home Page, only one report loads in the traditional format in order to keep this page as quick loading as possible.
See the "Total Freedom of Navigation" section for complete details about how to find, choose, and read reports.
One key place to find Older Reports is on sequentially numbered url's thequestforthering2.blogspot.com, thequestforthering3.blogspot.com, and so forth.
THE QUEST USER GUIDE VERSUS an about page
Other sites most often have undeveloped and limited in scope "about pages" which is usually all they have for what we call a "User Guide". Our User Guide material is a vast improvement, quantitatively and qualitatively, over a mere "about page" While many other sites don't help their visitors to make the best use of the content, we do. Also, the User Guide is chock loaded with invitations to visitors to participate in all kinds of ways, including for example advertising for free, link exchange, and getting a team site supported by Quest.
SEARCH THE QUEST FOR THE RING, THE EQUIVALENT OF MORE THAN 15 BOOKS ABOUT BASKETBALL
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SEARCH THE 15 BOOKS / 1.5 MILLION WORDSQUEST REPORTS #81 TO #100 GOING BACK IN TIME
VIDEOS
QUEST FOR THE RING VIDEOS--The primary Quest video page with video juke boxes for all 30 teams
QUEST FOR THE RING VIDEOS #2--Specially chosen video juke boxes and individual videos
QUEST FOR THE RING PRIMARY HOME PAGE B--A few key video players are here
LATEST NBA.COM NBA VIDEOS
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QUEST FOR THE RING VIDEOS #2--Specially chosen video juke boxes and individual videos
QUEST FOR THE RING PRIMARY HOME PAGE B--A few key video players are here
LATEST NBA.COM NBA VIDEOS
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MOST RECENT LEAGUE WIDE REAL PLAYER RATINGS
Note: This is generally a once a year, end of season Report. For many teams and players, more recent ratings are often available.
NBA REAL PLAYER RATINGS
2009-10 REGULAR SEASON
POSITION AND TEAM CODES
In the Real Player and related ratings shown for the League, two codes follow each players' name (and before his rating). The first code tells you the players' team and the second one tells you his position.
TEAM CODES
ATLA Atlanta Hawks
BOST Boston Celtics
CHAR Charlotte Bobcats
CHIC Chicago Bulls
CLEV Cleveland Cavaliers
DALL Dallas Mavericks
DENV Denver Nuggets
DETR Detroit Pistons
GOLS Golden State Warriors
HOUS Houston Rockets
INDI Indiana Pacers
LACL Los Angeles Clippers
LALK Los Angeles Lakers
MEMP Memphis Grizzlies
MIAM Miami Heat
MILW Milwaukee Bucks
MINN Minnesota Timberwolves
NJRS New Jersey Nets
NORL New Orleans Hornets
NWYR New York Knicks
OKLA Oklahoma Thunder
ORLA Orlando Magic
PHIL Philadelphia 76'ers
PHNX Phoenix Suns
PORT Portland Trailblazers
SACR Sacramento Kings
SANA San Antonio Spurs
TORO Toronto Raptors
UTAH Utah Jazz
WASH Washington Wizards
POSITION CODES
PG Point Guard
SG Shooting Guard
SF Small Forward
PF Power Forward
C Center
SCALE FOR REGULAR SEASON REAL PLAYER RATINGS
Perfect for all Practical Purposes / Major Historic Super Star 1.100 and more
Historic Super Star 1.000 1.099
Super Star 0.900 0.999
A Star Player / A well above normal starter 0.820 0.899
Very Good Player / A solid starter 0.760 0.819
Major Role Player / Good enough to start 0.700 0.759
Good Role Player / Often a good 6th man 0.640 0.699
Satisfactory Role Player / Preferably should not start 0.580 0.639
Marginal Role Player / Generally should not start 0.520 0.579
Poor Player / Should never start 0.460 0.519
Very Poor Player 0.400 0.459
Extremely Poor Player .399 and less
NBA REAL PLAYER RATINGS
2009-10 REGULAR SEASON
--Shows the real quality of players
--Includes all tracked actions and also includes untracked or hidden defending
--The average Real Player Rating for all players who play 300 minutes or more is about .700.
--All players who have played at least 300 minutes are included here and in all other ratings to follow in coming days
MAJOR HISTORIC SUPERSTARS
1 LeBron James CLEV SF 1.382
2 Tim Duncan SANA PF 1.254
3 Chris Paul NORL PG 1.202
4 Dwight Howard ORLA C 1.121
5 Andrew Bogut MILW C 1.112
HISTORIC SUPERSTARS
6 Steve Nash PHNX PG 1.095
7 Jason Kidd DALL PG 1.092
8 Rajon Rondo BOST PG 1.084
9 Deron Williams UTAH PG 1.076
10 Dwyane Wade MIAM SG 1.075
11 Marcus Camby LACL C 1.071
12 Pau Gasol LALK PF 1.065
13 Greg Oden PORT C 1.060
14 Kevin Durant OKLA SF 1.051
15 Dirk Nowitzki DALL PF 1.034
16 Josh Smith ATLA SF 1.033
17 Kevin Garnett BOST PF 1.033
18 Manu Ginobili SANA SG 1.023
19 Kobe Bryant LALK SG 1.005
SUPERSTARS
20 Carlos Boozer UTAH PF 0.994
21 Lamar Odom LALK PF 0.982
22 Andrei Kirilenko UTAH SF 0.976
23 Chris Bosh TORO PF 0.972
24 David Lee NWYR C 0.971
25 Al Horford ATLA C 0.970
26 Marcus Camby PORT C 0.967
27 Jameer Nelson ORLA PG 0.959
28 Joakim Noah CHIC C 0.955
29 John Salmons MILW SF 0.937
30 Andrew Bynum LALK C 0.936
31 Troy Murphy INDI PF 0.934
32 Kevin Love MINN PF 0.934
33 Anderson Varejao CLEV C 0.933
34 Brendan Haywood DALL C 0.929
35 Vince Carter ORLA SG 0.928
36 Gerald Wallace CHAR SF 0.918
37 Sergio Rodriguez SACR PG 0.908
38 Tyrus Thomas CHIC PF 0.904
39 Derrick Rose CHIC PG 0.903
STARS
40 Baron Davis LACL PG 0.899
41 Russell Westbrook OKLA PG 0.897
42 Zach Randolph MEMP PF 0.885
43 Danny Granger INDI SF 0.885
44 Marc Gasol MEMP C 0.885
45 Joe Johnson ATLA SG 0.883
46 Chauncey Billups DENV PG 0.883
47 Roy Hibbert INDI C 0.880
48 Ben Wallace DETR C 0.877
49 Andre Miller PORT PG 0.874
50 Carmelo Anthony DENV SF 0.874
51 Brandon Jennings MILW PG 0.870
52 Tyrus Thomas CHAR PF 0.870
53 A.J. Price INDI PG 0.868
54 Paul Millsap UTAH PF 0.866
55 Craig Smith LACL PF 0.865
56 Samuel Dalembert PHIL C 0.864
57 Andre Iguodala PHIL SG 0.858
58 Raymond Felton CHAR PG 0.857
59 Delonte West CLEV SG 0.856
60 Al Jefferson MINN C 0.856
61 Eric Maynor OKLA PG 0.856
62 Serge Ibaka OKLA PF 0.855
63 Nene Hilario DENV C 0.852
64 Chris Andersen DENV PF 0.849
65 Shaquille O'Neal CLEV C 0.842
66 Brandon Roy PORT SG 0.842
67 Ryan Anderson ORLA PF 0.840
68 Antonio McDyess SANA PF 0.839
69 Tony Parker SANA PG 0.837
70 Paul Pierce BOST SF 0.836
71 Mo Williams CLEV PG 0.835
72 Kyle Lowry HOUS PG 0.835
73 Ersan Ilyasova MILW SF 0.828
74 Amare Stoudemire PHNX PF 0.828
75 Luke Ridnour MILW PG 0.827
76 Erick Dampier DALL C 0.826
77 Tyreke Evans SACR PG 0.825
78 Andris Biedrins GOLS C 0.825
79 Kyle Korver UTAH SG 0.824
80 Anthony Randolph GOLS PF 0.820
VERY GOOD PLAYERS / SOLID STARTERS
81 Eric Maynor UTAH PG 0.819
82 Carlos Arroyo MIAM PG 0.819
83 Antawn Jamison CLEV PF 0.819
84 Nazr Mohammed CHAR C 0.818
85 Luol Deng CHIC SF 0.817
86 Dorell Wright MIAM SG 0.817
87 LaMarcus Aldridge PORT PF 0.817
88 Carl Landry HOUS PF 0.816
89 Luis Scola HOUS PF 0.816
90 Nick Collison OKLA PF 0.812
91 Carlos Delfino MILW SG 0.809
92 Kendrick Perkins BOST C 0.807
93 Jermaine O'Neal MIAM C 0.805
94 Nate Robinson NWYR PG 0.804
95 Goran Dragic PHNX PG 0.803
96 Mike Bibby ATLA PG 0.803
97 Stephen Curry GOLS PG 0.803
98 Mehmet Okur UTAH C 0.800
99 Jose Calderon TORO PG 0.797
100 Jason Terry DALL SG 0.791
101 Ronnie Price UTAH PG 0.784
102 DeJuan Blair SANA PF 0.784
103 Chris Kaman LACL C 0.783
104 Shaun Livingston WASH PG 0.783
105 Joel Przybilla PORT C 0.782
106 David West NORL PF 0.781
107 John Salmons CHIC SF 0.776
108 Matt Barnes ORLA SF 0.775
109 Darren Collison NORL PG 0.775
110 Ronny Turiaf GOLS C 0.774
111 Udonis Haslem MIAM PF 0.774
112 Shawn Marion DALL SF 0.772
113 Jason Williams ORLA PG 0.771
114 Keyon Dooling NJRS PG 0.771
115 Andray Blatche WASH C 0.770
116 James Harden OKLA SG 0.770
117 Brook Lopez NJRS C 0.770
118 Ray Allen BOST SG 0.770
119 Amir Johnson TORO SF 0.769
120 Ty Lawson DENV PG 0.768
121 Beno Udrih SACR PG 0.768
122 Chuck Hayes HOUS PF 0.765
123 Matt Bonner SANA PF 0.763
124 Reggie Evans TORO PF 0.763
125 Gilbert Arenas WASH PG 0.760
MAJOR ROLE PLAYERS / GOOD ENOUGH TO START
126 Zydrunas Ilgauskas CLEV C 0.758
127 Rasheed Wallace BOST PF 0.757
128 Lou Williams PHIL SG 0.756
129 Stephen Jackson CHAR SF 0.754
130 Dan Gadzuric MILW C 0.754
131 Jamario Moon CLEV SF 0.754
132 Ron Artest LALK SF 0.752
133 Rodney Stuckey DETR PG 0.749
134 Shelden Williams BOST PF 0.748
135 Oleksiy Pecherov MINN C 0.748
136 Aaron Brooks HOUS PG 0.747
137 Boris Diaw CHAR PF 0.746
138 C.J. Watson GOLS PG 0.746
139 Brendan Haywood WASH C 0.744
140 Emeka Okafor NORL C 0.742
141 Taj Gibson CHIC PF 0.741
142 J.R. Smith DENV SG 0.738
143 Mike Miller WASH SF 0.732
144 Channing Frye PHNX C 0.731
145 Louis Amundson PHNX PF 0.731
146 Elton Brand PHIL PF 0.726
147 D.J. Mbenga LALK C 0.725
148 Tayshaun Prince DETR SF 0.724
149 Francisco Garcia SACR SG 0.724
150 Tyler Hansbrough INDI PF 0.724
151 Trevor Ariza HOUS SG 0.723
152 Allen Iverson PHIL SG 0.722
153 Rashard Lewis ORLA PF 0.721
154 Richard Jefferson SANA SF 0.721
155 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute MILW SF 0.721
156 Jamal Crawford ATLA SG 0.721
157 Brad Miller CHIC C 0.720
158 Josh Boone NJRS C 0.718
159 Jason Richardson PHNX SG 0.718
160 Sebastian Telfair LACL PG 0.717
161 Marvin Williams ATLA PF 0.716
162 David Andersen HOUS C 0.715
163 Caron Butler DALL SF 0.715
164 Michael Beasley MIAM PF 0.714
165 George Hill SANA PG 0.713
166 Ronnie Brewer UTAH SG 0.712
167 D.J. Augustin CHAR PG 0.712
168 Monta Ellis GOLS PG 0.711
169 Sean May SACR PF 0.710
170 Anthony Tolliver GOLS PF 0.709
171 Kenyon Martin DENV PF 0.709
172 Tyson Chandler CHAR C 0.709
173 Rodrigue Beaubois DALL PG 0.707
174 Stephen Jackson GOLS SF 0.704
175 Shane Battier HOUS SF 0.703
176 Stephen Graham CHAR SF 0.702
177 Mike Conley MEMP PG 0.702
178 Earl Watson INDI PG 0.701
179 T.J. Ford INDI PG 0.700
GOOD ROLE PLAYERS / OFTEN GOOD 6TH MAN PLAYERS
180 Ramon Sessions MINN PG 0.699
181 Corey Maggette GOLS SF 0.699
182 Marcin Gortat ORLA PF 0.698
183 Terrence Williams NJRS SG 0.698
184 Jarrett Jack TORO PG 0.698
185 James Singleton WASH SF 0.696
186 JaVale McGee WASH C 0.694
187 Jose Juan Barea DALL PG 0.694
188 Marcus Thornton NORL SG 0.693
189 Daequan Cook MIAM SG 0.691
190 Jordan Farmar LALK PG 0.689
191 Kirk Hinrich CHIC PG 0.689
192 Carl Landry SACR PF 0.689
193 Shannon Brown LALK PG 0.687
194 Anthony Carter DENV PG 0.686
195 Jason Thompson SACR PF 0.686
196 Mike Dunleavy INDI SF 0.686
197 Robin Lopez PHNX C 0.684
198 Spencer Hawes SACR C 0.680
199 Rudy Fernandez PORT SG 0.678
200 Drew Gooden LACL PF 0.678
201 Steve Blake LACL PG 0.677
202 Bobby Simmons NJRS SF 0.676
203 Larry Hughes NWYR SG 0.675
204 Jerry Stackhouse MILW SF 0.675
205 Quentin Richardson MIAM SG 0.675
206 Rudy Gay MEMP SF 0.675
207 Darko Milicic MINN C 0.674
208 Drew Gooden DALL PF 0.674
209 Reggie Williams GOLS SF 0.673
210 Ronald Murray CHAR SG 0.671
211 Grant Hill PHNX SF 0.669
212 Nate Robinson BOST PG 0.668
213 Travis Outlaw LACL SF 0.668
214 Steve Blake PORT PG 0.667
215 Devin Harris NJRS PG 0.665
216 Antawn Jamison WASH PF 0.665
217 Danilo Gallinari NWYR SF 0.664
218 Wilson Chandler NWYR SF 0.664
219 Gerald Henderson CHAR SG 0.664
220 Tony Allen BOST SG 0.663
221 Kyrylo Fesenko UTAH C 0.662
222 Anthony Morrow GOLS SG 0.661
223 Jordan Hill HOUS PF 0.661
224 Jared Dudley PHNX SF 0.660
225 Daniel Gibson CLEV PG 0.660
226 Jeff Green OKLA PF 0.659
227 Josh McRoberts INDI PF 0.659
228 Anthony Johnson ORLA PG 0.658
229 J.J. Redick ORLA SG 0.658
230 Al Harrington NWYR PF 0.655
231 Luther Head INDI PG 0.654
232 Nicolas Batum PORT SF 0.653
233 Theo Ratliff CHAR C 0.650
234 Mario Chalmers MIAM PG 0.648
235 Brandon Bass ORLA PF 0.648
236 Kris Humphries NJRS PF 0.646
237 Chris Duhon NWYR PG 0.643
238 Nenad Krstic OKLA C 0.642
239 Kris Humphries DALL PF 0.642
SATISFACTORY ROLE PLAYERS / USUALLY DO NOT START
240 Rasho Nesterovic TORO C 0.637
241 Hedo Turkoglu TORO SF 0.635
242 Johan Petro DENV C 0.635
243 Randy Foye WASH PG 0.634
244 Jrue Holiday PHIL PG 0.633
245 Mickael Pietrus ORLA SG 0.631
246 Jared Jeffries NWYR PF 0.627
247 Leandro Barbosa PHNX SG 0.626
248 Joel Anthony MIAM C 0.624
249 O.J. Mayo MEMP SG 0.622
250 Chase Budinger HOUS SF 0.621
251 Roger Mason SANA SG 0.619
252 Caron Butler WASH SF 0.617
253 Peja Stojakovic NORL SF 0.615
254 Marreese Speights PHIL PF 0.613
255 Jamaal Tinsley MEMP PG 0.613
256 Bobby Brown NORL PG 0.611
257 Jonas Jerebko DETR SF 0.610
258 Omri Casspi SACR SF 0.609
259 Kurt Thomas MILW PF 0.608
260 Thaddeus Young PHIL SF 0.607
261 Brandon Rush INDI SG 0.606
262 Hasheem Thabeet MEMP C 0.605
263 Damien Wilkins MINN SG 0.601
264 Rodney Carney PHIL SF 0.601
265 Earl Boykins WASH PG 0.599
266 J.J. Hickson CLEV PF 0.599
267 Willie Green PHIL SG 0.598
268 Anthony Parker CLEV SG 0.596
269 Jamaal Magloire MIAM C 0.594
270 Wesley Matthews UTAH SG 0.592
271 Devean George GOLS SG 0.592
272 Richard Hamilton DETR SG 0.592
273 Kevin Martin SACR SG 0.591
274 Andrea Bargnani TORO C 0.591
275 Ryan Gomes MINN SF 0.589
276 Thabo Sefolosha OKLA SF 0.589
277 Rafer Alston NJRS PG 0.589
278 Tracy McGrady NWYR SG 0.588
279 Marco Belinelli TORO SG 0.587
280 Michael Finley BOST SF 0.585
281 Marcus Williams MEMP PG 0.583
282 Martell Webster PORT SG 0.583
283 Charlie Villanueva DETR PF 0.582
MARGINAL ROLE PLAYERS / RARELY START
284 Derek Fisher LALK PG 0.578
285 Jannero Pargo CHIC PG 0.577
286 Toney Douglas NWYR PG 0.577
287 Chris Hunter GOLS PF 0.576
288 Derrick Brown CHAR SF 0.575
289 Yi Jianlian NJRS PF 0.575
290 Nathan Jawai MINN PF 0.575
291 Ime Udoka SACR SG 0.574
292 Sergio Rodriguez NWYR PG 0.574
293 Arron Afflalo DENV SG 0.573
294 Kevin Martin HOUS SG 0.572
295 Hakim Warrick MILW PF 0.571
296 Al Thornton WASH SF 0.569
297 Will Bynum DETR PG 0.568
298 Jonny Flynn MINN PG 0.568
299 James Posey NORL SF 0.564
300 Mikki Moore GOLS C 0.561
301 Darius Songaila NORL PF 0.561
302 Jerryd Bayless PORT PG 0.556
303 Jon Brockman SACR PF 0.554
304 Sasha Vujacic LALK SG 0.554
305 Dante Cunningham PORT SF 0.551
306 Michael Redd MILW SG 0.551
307 Eric Gordon LACL SG 0.550
308 C.J. Miles UTAH SF 0.549
309 Al Thornton LACL SF 0.547
310 Julian Wright NORL SF 0.545
311 Jeff Teague ATLA PG 0.544
312 Marquis Daniels BOST SG 0.543
313 Dahntay Jones INDI SG 0.542
314 Chris Douglas-Roberts NJRS SG 0.541
315 Zaza Pachulia ATLA C 0.538
316 Etan Thomas OKLA C 0.538
317 Sonny Weems TORO SG 0.537
318 Devin Brown NORL SG 0.533
319 Jason Maxiell DETR PF 0.532
320 Bill Walker NWYR SG 0.532
321 Courtney Lee NJRS SG 0.528
322 James Jones MIAM SF 0.525
323 Donte Greene SACR SF 0.524
324 Kenny Thomas SACR PF 0.523
325 Wayne Ellington MINN SG 0.521
326 Juwan Howard PORT PF 0.520
POOR PLAYERS / SHOULD NEVER START
327 Charlie Bell MILW SG 0.518
328 Corey Brewer MINN SF 0.518
329 Hakim Warrick CHIC PF 0.514
330 DeAndre Jordan LACL C 0.512
331 Rasual Butler LACL SG 0.509
332 Glen Davis BOST PF 0.508
333 Sam Young MEMP SF 0.508
334 Austin Daye DETR SF 0.507
335 Ronald Murray CHIC SG 0.504
336 Vladimir Radmanovic GOLS SF 0.494
337 Solomon Jones INDI PF 0.493
338 Ben Gordon DETR SG 0.491
339 James Johnson CHIC PF 0.487
340 Rafer Alston MIAM PG 0.482
341 Eduardo Najera DALL PF 0.482
342 Chucky Atkins DETR PG 0.477
343 Earl Clark PHNX SF 0.474
344 Joey Graham DENV SF 0.473
345 Fabricio Oberto WASH C 0.468
346 Jason Smith PHIL PF 0.466
347 Andres Nocioni SACR SF 0.464
348 Jared Jeffries HOUS PF 0.462
349 Nick Young WASH SG 0.462
350 Maurice Evans ATLA SF 0.462
351 Keith Bogans SANA SG 0.462
352 Josh Howard DALL SF 0.460
VERY POOR PLAYERS
353 Eddie House NWYR SG 0.454
354 Joe Smith ATLA PF 0.453
355 Kwame Brown DETR C 0.452
356 Antoine Wright TORO SF 0.451
357 Darrell Arthur MEMP PF 0.443
358 Jarvis Hayes NJRS SF 0.438
359 Ricky Davis LACL SF 0.437
360 Mardy Collins LACL PG 0.436
361 Malik Hairston SANA SG 0.433
362 Jeff Pendergraph PORT PF 0.432
363 Jermaine Taylor HOUS SG 0.428
364 Chris Wilcox DETR C 0.417
365 DeMar DeRozan TORO SG 0.414
366 Jodie Meeks MILW SG 0.413
367 Quinton Ross DALL SF 0.406
EXTREMELY POOR PLAYERS
368 Morris Peterson NORL SG 0.394
369 Josh Powell LALK PF 0.386
370 Jason Kapono PHIL SG 0.383
371 Jawad Williams CLEV SF 0.369
372 DeMarre Carroll MEMP SF 0.357
373 Ryan Hollins MINN C 0.351
374 Steve Novak LACL SF 0.345
375 Trenton Hassell NJRS SF 0.342
376 Brian Scalabrine BOST C 0.329
377 Michael Finley SANA SF 0.321
378 Sasha Pavlovic MINN SG 0.314
379 DeShawn Stevenson WASH SG 0.287
380 Malik Allen DENV PF 0.282
381 DaJuan Summers DETR SF 0.266
SCALE FOR REGULAR SEASON REAL PLAYER RATINGS
Perfect for all Practical Purposes / Major Historic Super Star 1.100 and more
Historic Super Star 1.000 1.099
Super Star 0.900 0.999
A Star Player / A well above normal starter 0.820 0.899
Very Good Player / A solid starter 0.760 0.819
Major Role Player / Good enough to start 0.700 0.759
Good Role Player / Often a good 6th man 0.640 0.699
Satisfactory Role Player / Usually do not start 0.580 0.639
Marginal Role Player / Rarely start 0.520 0.579
Poor Player / Should never start 0.460 0.519
Very Poor Player 0.400 0.459
Extremely Poor Player .399 and less
AVERAGE RATINGS BY POSITION
Not all positions are created equal. These are the average ratings by position among all NBA players who play 300 minutes or more. There are very few small forwards and shooting guards who are superstars. Most (but definitely not all) superstars are players who can play point guard, power forward, or center.
Point Guard .750
Shooting Guard .640
Small Forward .640
Power Forward .720
Center .750
All Positions / All Players (NBA Overall Average) .700
PLAYOFF GRADE PLAYERS
Playoff Grade Players have ratings of .560 and higher. Players with ratings below .560 should not play in the playoffs unless the team is forced to play them so that they have two players at a position and/or so that the team has at least eight players playing in the playoffs and/or because the coach is absolutely certain the low rating player will play better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.
REGULAR SEASON STARTING PLAYERS
All starters on all teams should have ratings of .575 and higher. If a team has no player at a postion with at least a .575 rating, then it is extremely deficient at that position due to injuries or due to management incompetence.
THE ALL IMPORTANT, AWARD WINNING REAL PLAYER RATINGS USER GUIDE
The above are a few hightlights from the User Guide for Real Player Ratings. For complete details regarding how the Real Player Ratings are designed, how and why they work, and how exactly you can use them, see the User Guide. The User Guide for Real Player Ratings is a necessary reference for anyone who wants to truly understand the value of, the validity of, and the ways you can use the Real Player Rating performance measures.
Also, you should become a regular visitor to Quest for the Ring if you want to get the full advantage of reading and using Real Player Ratings Series performance measures. The more you visit and check out ratings, the more quickly and easily you will be able to evaluate what you are seeing.
NBA REAL PLAYER RATINGS
2009-10 REGULAR SEASON
POSITION AND TEAM CODES
In the Real Player and related ratings shown for the League, two codes follow each players' name (and before his rating). The first code tells you the players' team and the second one tells you his position.
TEAM CODES
ATLA Atlanta Hawks
BOST Boston Celtics
CHAR Charlotte Bobcats
CHIC Chicago Bulls
CLEV Cleveland Cavaliers
DALL Dallas Mavericks
DENV Denver Nuggets
DETR Detroit Pistons
GOLS Golden State Warriors
HOUS Houston Rockets
INDI Indiana Pacers
LACL Los Angeles Clippers
LALK Los Angeles Lakers
MEMP Memphis Grizzlies
MIAM Miami Heat
MILW Milwaukee Bucks
MINN Minnesota Timberwolves
NJRS New Jersey Nets
NORL New Orleans Hornets
NWYR New York Knicks
OKLA Oklahoma Thunder
ORLA Orlando Magic
PHIL Philadelphia 76'ers
PHNX Phoenix Suns
PORT Portland Trailblazers
SACR Sacramento Kings
SANA San Antonio Spurs
TORO Toronto Raptors
UTAH Utah Jazz
WASH Washington Wizards
POSITION CODES
PG Point Guard
SG Shooting Guard
SF Small Forward
PF Power Forward
C Center
SCALE FOR REGULAR SEASON REAL PLAYER RATINGS
Perfect for all Practical Purposes / Major Historic Super Star 1.100 and more
Historic Super Star 1.000 1.099
Super Star 0.900 0.999
A Star Player / A well above normal starter 0.820 0.899
Very Good Player / A solid starter 0.760 0.819
Major Role Player / Good enough to start 0.700 0.759
Good Role Player / Often a good 6th man 0.640 0.699
Satisfactory Role Player / Preferably should not start 0.580 0.639
Marginal Role Player / Generally should not start 0.520 0.579
Poor Player / Should never start 0.460 0.519
Very Poor Player 0.400 0.459
Extremely Poor Player .399 and less
NBA REAL PLAYER RATINGS
2009-10 REGULAR SEASON
--Shows the real quality of players
--Includes all tracked actions and also includes untracked or hidden defending
--The average Real Player Rating for all players who play 300 minutes or more is about .700.
--All players who have played at least 300 minutes are included here and in all other ratings to follow in coming days
MAJOR HISTORIC SUPERSTARS
1 LeBron James CLEV SF 1.382
2 Tim Duncan SANA PF 1.254
3 Chris Paul NORL PG 1.202
4 Dwight Howard ORLA C 1.121
5 Andrew Bogut MILW C 1.112
HISTORIC SUPERSTARS
6 Steve Nash PHNX PG 1.095
7 Jason Kidd DALL PG 1.092
8 Rajon Rondo BOST PG 1.084
9 Deron Williams UTAH PG 1.076
10 Dwyane Wade MIAM SG 1.075
11 Marcus Camby LACL C 1.071
12 Pau Gasol LALK PF 1.065
13 Greg Oden PORT C 1.060
14 Kevin Durant OKLA SF 1.051
15 Dirk Nowitzki DALL PF 1.034
16 Josh Smith ATLA SF 1.033
17 Kevin Garnett BOST PF 1.033
18 Manu Ginobili SANA SG 1.023
19 Kobe Bryant LALK SG 1.005
SUPERSTARS
20 Carlos Boozer UTAH PF 0.994
21 Lamar Odom LALK PF 0.982
22 Andrei Kirilenko UTAH SF 0.976
23 Chris Bosh TORO PF 0.972
24 David Lee NWYR C 0.971
25 Al Horford ATLA C 0.970
26 Marcus Camby PORT C 0.967
27 Jameer Nelson ORLA PG 0.959
28 Joakim Noah CHIC C 0.955
29 John Salmons MILW SF 0.937
30 Andrew Bynum LALK C 0.936
31 Troy Murphy INDI PF 0.934
32 Kevin Love MINN PF 0.934
33 Anderson Varejao CLEV C 0.933
34 Brendan Haywood DALL C 0.929
35 Vince Carter ORLA SG 0.928
36 Gerald Wallace CHAR SF 0.918
37 Sergio Rodriguez SACR PG 0.908
38 Tyrus Thomas CHIC PF 0.904
39 Derrick Rose CHIC PG 0.903
STARS
40 Baron Davis LACL PG 0.899
41 Russell Westbrook OKLA PG 0.897
42 Zach Randolph MEMP PF 0.885
43 Danny Granger INDI SF 0.885
44 Marc Gasol MEMP C 0.885
45 Joe Johnson ATLA SG 0.883
46 Chauncey Billups DENV PG 0.883
47 Roy Hibbert INDI C 0.880
48 Ben Wallace DETR C 0.877
49 Andre Miller PORT PG 0.874
50 Carmelo Anthony DENV SF 0.874
51 Brandon Jennings MILW PG 0.870
52 Tyrus Thomas CHAR PF 0.870
53 A.J. Price INDI PG 0.868
54 Paul Millsap UTAH PF 0.866
55 Craig Smith LACL PF 0.865
56 Samuel Dalembert PHIL C 0.864
57 Andre Iguodala PHIL SG 0.858
58 Raymond Felton CHAR PG 0.857
59 Delonte West CLEV SG 0.856
60 Al Jefferson MINN C 0.856
61 Eric Maynor OKLA PG 0.856
62 Serge Ibaka OKLA PF 0.855
63 Nene Hilario DENV C 0.852
64 Chris Andersen DENV PF 0.849
65 Shaquille O'Neal CLEV C 0.842
66 Brandon Roy PORT SG 0.842
67 Ryan Anderson ORLA PF 0.840
68 Antonio McDyess SANA PF 0.839
69 Tony Parker SANA PG 0.837
70 Paul Pierce BOST SF 0.836
71 Mo Williams CLEV PG 0.835
72 Kyle Lowry HOUS PG 0.835
73 Ersan Ilyasova MILW SF 0.828
74 Amare Stoudemire PHNX PF 0.828
75 Luke Ridnour MILW PG 0.827
76 Erick Dampier DALL C 0.826
77 Tyreke Evans SACR PG 0.825
78 Andris Biedrins GOLS C 0.825
79 Kyle Korver UTAH SG 0.824
80 Anthony Randolph GOLS PF 0.820
VERY GOOD PLAYERS / SOLID STARTERS
81 Eric Maynor UTAH PG 0.819
82 Carlos Arroyo MIAM PG 0.819
83 Antawn Jamison CLEV PF 0.819
84 Nazr Mohammed CHAR C 0.818
85 Luol Deng CHIC SF 0.817
86 Dorell Wright MIAM SG 0.817
87 LaMarcus Aldridge PORT PF 0.817
88 Carl Landry HOUS PF 0.816
89 Luis Scola HOUS PF 0.816
90 Nick Collison OKLA PF 0.812
91 Carlos Delfino MILW SG 0.809
92 Kendrick Perkins BOST C 0.807
93 Jermaine O'Neal MIAM C 0.805
94 Nate Robinson NWYR PG 0.804
95 Goran Dragic PHNX PG 0.803
96 Mike Bibby ATLA PG 0.803
97 Stephen Curry GOLS PG 0.803
98 Mehmet Okur UTAH C 0.800
99 Jose Calderon TORO PG 0.797
100 Jason Terry DALL SG 0.791
101 Ronnie Price UTAH PG 0.784
102 DeJuan Blair SANA PF 0.784
103 Chris Kaman LACL C 0.783
104 Shaun Livingston WASH PG 0.783
105 Joel Przybilla PORT C 0.782
106 David West NORL PF 0.781
107 John Salmons CHIC SF 0.776
108 Matt Barnes ORLA SF 0.775
109 Darren Collison NORL PG 0.775
110 Ronny Turiaf GOLS C 0.774
111 Udonis Haslem MIAM PF 0.774
112 Shawn Marion DALL SF 0.772
113 Jason Williams ORLA PG 0.771
114 Keyon Dooling NJRS PG 0.771
115 Andray Blatche WASH C 0.770
116 James Harden OKLA SG 0.770
117 Brook Lopez NJRS C 0.770
118 Ray Allen BOST SG 0.770
119 Amir Johnson TORO SF 0.769
120 Ty Lawson DENV PG 0.768
121 Beno Udrih SACR PG 0.768
122 Chuck Hayes HOUS PF 0.765
123 Matt Bonner SANA PF 0.763
124 Reggie Evans TORO PF 0.763
125 Gilbert Arenas WASH PG 0.760
MAJOR ROLE PLAYERS / GOOD ENOUGH TO START
126 Zydrunas Ilgauskas CLEV C 0.758
127 Rasheed Wallace BOST PF 0.757
128 Lou Williams PHIL SG 0.756
129 Stephen Jackson CHAR SF 0.754
130 Dan Gadzuric MILW C 0.754
131 Jamario Moon CLEV SF 0.754
132 Ron Artest LALK SF 0.752
133 Rodney Stuckey DETR PG 0.749
134 Shelden Williams BOST PF 0.748
135 Oleksiy Pecherov MINN C 0.748
136 Aaron Brooks HOUS PG 0.747
137 Boris Diaw CHAR PF 0.746
138 C.J. Watson GOLS PG 0.746
139 Brendan Haywood WASH C 0.744
140 Emeka Okafor NORL C 0.742
141 Taj Gibson CHIC PF 0.741
142 J.R. Smith DENV SG 0.738
143 Mike Miller WASH SF 0.732
144 Channing Frye PHNX C 0.731
145 Louis Amundson PHNX PF 0.731
146 Elton Brand PHIL PF 0.726
147 D.J. Mbenga LALK C 0.725
148 Tayshaun Prince DETR SF 0.724
149 Francisco Garcia SACR SG 0.724
150 Tyler Hansbrough INDI PF 0.724
151 Trevor Ariza HOUS SG 0.723
152 Allen Iverson PHIL SG 0.722
153 Rashard Lewis ORLA PF 0.721
154 Richard Jefferson SANA SF 0.721
155 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute MILW SF 0.721
156 Jamal Crawford ATLA SG 0.721
157 Brad Miller CHIC C 0.720
158 Josh Boone NJRS C 0.718
159 Jason Richardson PHNX SG 0.718
160 Sebastian Telfair LACL PG 0.717
161 Marvin Williams ATLA PF 0.716
162 David Andersen HOUS C 0.715
163 Caron Butler DALL SF 0.715
164 Michael Beasley MIAM PF 0.714
165 George Hill SANA PG 0.713
166 Ronnie Brewer UTAH SG 0.712
167 D.J. Augustin CHAR PG 0.712
168 Monta Ellis GOLS PG 0.711
169 Sean May SACR PF 0.710
170 Anthony Tolliver GOLS PF 0.709
171 Kenyon Martin DENV PF 0.709
172 Tyson Chandler CHAR C 0.709
173 Rodrigue Beaubois DALL PG 0.707
174 Stephen Jackson GOLS SF 0.704
175 Shane Battier HOUS SF 0.703
176 Stephen Graham CHAR SF 0.702
177 Mike Conley MEMP PG 0.702
178 Earl Watson INDI PG 0.701
179 T.J. Ford INDI PG 0.700
GOOD ROLE PLAYERS / OFTEN GOOD 6TH MAN PLAYERS
180 Ramon Sessions MINN PG 0.699
181 Corey Maggette GOLS SF 0.699
182 Marcin Gortat ORLA PF 0.698
183 Terrence Williams NJRS SG 0.698
184 Jarrett Jack TORO PG 0.698
185 James Singleton WASH SF 0.696
186 JaVale McGee WASH C 0.694
187 Jose Juan Barea DALL PG 0.694
188 Marcus Thornton NORL SG 0.693
189 Daequan Cook MIAM SG 0.691
190 Jordan Farmar LALK PG 0.689
191 Kirk Hinrich CHIC PG 0.689
192 Carl Landry SACR PF 0.689
193 Shannon Brown LALK PG 0.687
194 Anthony Carter DENV PG 0.686
195 Jason Thompson SACR PF 0.686
196 Mike Dunleavy INDI SF 0.686
197 Robin Lopez PHNX C 0.684
198 Spencer Hawes SACR C 0.680
199 Rudy Fernandez PORT SG 0.678
200 Drew Gooden LACL PF 0.678
201 Steve Blake LACL PG 0.677
202 Bobby Simmons NJRS SF 0.676
203 Larry Hughes NWYR SG 0.675
204 Jerry Stackhouse MILW SF 0.675
205 Quentin Richardson MIAM SG 0.675
206 Rudy Gay MEMP SF 0.675
207 Darko Milicic MINN C 0.674
208 Drew Gooden DALL PF 0.674
209 Reggie Williams GOLS SF 0.673
210 Ronald Murray CHAR SG 0.671
211 Grant Hill PHNX SF 0.669
212 Nate Robinson BOST PG 0.668
213 Travis Outlaw LACL SF 0.668
214 Steve Blake PORT PG 0.667
215 Devin Harris NJRS PG 0.665
216 Antawn Jamison WASH PF 0.665
217 Danilo Gallinari NWYR SF 0.664
218 Wilson Chandler NWYR SF 0.664
219 Gerald Henderson CHAR SG 0.664
220 Tony Allen BOST SG 0.663
221 Kyrylo Fesenko UTAH C 0.662
222 Anthony Morrow GOLS SG 0.661
223 Jordan Hill HOUS PF 0.661
224 Jared Dudley PHNX SF 0.660
225 Daniel Gibson CLEV PG 0.660
226 Jeff Green OKLA PF 0.659
227 Josh McRoberts INDI PF 0.659
228 Anthony Johnson ORLA PG 0.658
229 J.J. Redick ORLA SG 0.658
230 Al Harrington NWYR PF 0.655
231 Luther Head INDI PG 0.654
232 Nicolas Batum PORT SF 0.653
233 Theo Ratliff CHAR C 0.650
234 Mario Chalmers MIAM PG 0.648
235 Brandon Bass ORLA PF 0.648
236 Kris Humphries NJRS PF 0.646
237 Chris Duhon NWYR PG 0.643
238 Nenad Krstic OKLA C 0.642
239 Kris Humphries DALL PF 0.642
SATISFACTORY ROLE PLAYERS / USUALLY DO NOT START
240 Rasho Nesterovic TORO C 0.637
241 Hedo Turkoglu TORO SF 0.635
242 Johan Petro DENV C 0.635
243 Randy Foye WASH PG 0.634
244 Jrue Holiday PHIL PG 0.633
245 Mickael Pietrus ORLA SG 0.631
246 Jared Jeffries NWYR PF 0.627
247 Leandro Barbosa PHNX SG 0.626
248 Joel Anthony MIAM C 0.624
249 O.J. Mayo MEMP SG 0.622
250 Chase Budinger HOUS SF 0.621
251 Roger Mason SANA SG 0.619
252 Caron Butler WASH SF 0.617
253 Peja Stojakovic NORL SF 0.615
254 Marreese Speights PHIL PF 0.613
255 Jamaal Tinsley MEMP PG 0.613
256 Bobby Brown NORL PG 0.611
257 Jonas Jerebko DETR SF 0.610
258 Omri Casspi SACR SF 0.609
259 Kurt Thomas MILW PF 0.608
260 Thaddeus Young PHIL SF 0.607
261 Brandon Rush INDI SG 0.606
262 Hasheem Thabeet MEMP C 0.605
263 Damien Wilkins MINN SG 0.601
264 Rodney Carney PHIL SF 0.601
265 Earl Boykins WASH PG 0.599
266 J.J. Hickson CLEV PF 0.599
267 Willie Green PHIL SG 0.598
268 Anthony Parker CLEV SG 0.596
269 Jamaal Magloire MIAM C 0.594
270 Wesley Matthews UTAH SG 0.592
271 Devean George GOLS SG 0.592
272 Richard Hamilton DETR SG 0.592
273 Kevin Martin SACR SG 0.591
274 Andrea Bargnani TORO C 0.591
275 Ryan Gomes MINN SF 0.589
276 Thabo Sefolosha OKLA SF 0.589
277 Rafer Alston NJRS PG 0.589
278 Tracy McGrady NWYR SG 0.588
279 Marco Belinelli TORO SG 0.587
280 Michael Finley BOST SF 0.585
281 Marcus Williams MEMP PG 0.583
282 Martell Webster PORT SG 0.583
283 Charlie Villanueva DETR PF 0.582
MARGINAL ROLE PLAYERS / RARELY START
284 Derek Fisher LALK PG 0.578
285 Jannero Pargo CHIC PG 0.577
286 Toney Douglas NWYR PG 0.577
287 Chris Hunter GOLS PF 0.576
288 Derrick Brown CHAR SF 0.575
289 Yi Jianlian NJRS PF 0.575
290 Nathan Jawai MINN PF 0.575
291 Ime Udoka SACR SG 0.574
292 Sergio Rodriguez NWYR PG 0.574
293 Arron Afflalo DENV SG 0.573
294 Kevin Martin HOUS SG 0.572
295 Hakim Warrick MILW PF 0.571
296 Al Thornton WASH SF 0.569
297 Will Bynum DETR PG 0.568
298 Jonny Flynn MINN PG 0.568
299 James Posey NORL SF 0.564
300 Mikki Moore GOLS C 0.561
301 Darius Songaila NORL PF 0.561
302 Jerryd Bayless PORT PG 0.556
303 Jon Brockman SACR PF 0.554
304 Sasha Vujacic LALK SG 0.554
305 Dante Cunningham PORT SF 0.551
306 Michael Redd MILW SG 0.551
307 Eric Gordon LACL SG 0.550
308 C.J. Miles UTAH SF 0.549
309 Al Thornton LACL SF 0.547
310 Julian Wright NORL SF 0.545
311 Jeff Teague ATLA PG 0.544
312 Marquis Daniels BOST SG 0.543
313 Dahntay Jones INDI SG 0.542
314 Chris Douglas-Roberts NJRS SG 0.541
315 Zaza Pachulia ATLA C 0.538
316 Etan Thomas OKLA C 0.538
317 Sonny Weems TORO SG 0.537
318 Devin Brown NORL SG 0.533
319 Jason Maxiell DETR PF 0.532
320 Bill Walker NWYR SG 0.532
321 Courtney Lee NJRS SG 0.528
322 James Jones MIAM SF 0.525
323 Donte Greene SACR SF 0.524
324 Kenny Thomas SACR PF 0.523
325 Wayne Ellington MINN SG 0.521
326 Juwan Howard PORT PF 0.520
POOR PLAYERS / SHOULD NEVER START
327 Charlie Bell MILW SG 0.518
328 Corey Brewer MINN SF 0.518
329 Hakim Warrick CHIC PF 0.514
330 DeAndre Jordan LACL C 0.512
331 Rasual Butler LACL SG 0.509
332 Glen Davis BOST PF 0.508
333 Sam Young MEMP SF 0.508
334 Austin Daye DETR SF 0.507
335 Ronald Murray CHIC SG 0.504
336 Vladimir Radmanovic GOLS SF 0.494
337 Solomon Jones INDI PF 0.493
338 Ben Gordon DETR SG 0.491
339 James Johnson CHIC PF 0.487
340 Rafer Alston MIAM PG 0.482
341 Eduardo Najera DALL PF 0.482
342 Chucky Atkins DETR PG 0.477
343 Earl Clark PHNX SF 0.474
344 Joey Graham DENV SF 0.473
345 Fabricio Oberto WASH C 0.468
346 Jason Smith PHIL PF 0.466
347 Andres Nocioni SACR SF 0.464
348 Jared Jeffries HOUS PF 0.462
349 Nick Young WASH SG 0.462
350 Maurice Evans ATLA SF 0.462
351 Keith Bogans SANA SG 0.462
352 Josh Howard DALL SF 0.460
VERY POOR PLAYERS
353 Eddie House NWYR SG 0.454
354 Joe Smith ATLA PF 0.453
355 Kwame Brown DETR C 0.452
356 Antoine Wright TORO SF 0.451
357 Darrell Arthur MEMP PF 0.443
358 Jarvis Hayes NJRS SF 0.438
359 Ricky Davis LACL SF 0.437
360 Mardy Collins LACL PG 0.436
361 Malik Hairston SANA SG 0.433
362 Jeff Pendergraph PORT PF 0.432
363 Jermaine Taylor HOUS SG 0.428
364 Chris Wilcox DETR C 0.417
365 DeMar DeRozan TORO SG 0.414
366 Jodie Meeks MILW SG 0.413
367 Quinton Ross DALL SF 0.406
EXTREMELY POOR PLAYERS
368 Morris Peterson NORL SG 0.394
369 Josh Powell LALK PF 0.386
370 Jason Kapono PHIL SG 0.383
371 Jawad Williams CLEV SF 0.369
372 DeMarre Carroll MEMP SF 0.357
373 Ryan Hollins MINN C 0.351
374 Steve Novak LACL SF 0.345
375 Trenton Hassell NJRS SF 0.342
376 Brian Scalabrine BOST C 0.329
377 Michael Finley SANA SF 0.321
378 Sasha Pavlovic MINN SG 0.314
379 DeShawn Stevenson WASH SG 0.287
380 Malik Allen DENV PF 0.282
381 DaJuan Summers DETR SF 0.266
SCALE FOR REGULAR SEASON REAL PLAYER RATINGS
Perfect for all Practical Purposes / Major Historic Super Star 1.100 and more
Historic Super Star 1.000 1.099
Super Star 0.900 0.999
A Star Player / A well above normal starter 0.820 0.899
Very Good Player / A solid starter 0.760 0.819
Major Role Player / Good enough to start 0.700 0.759
Good Role Player / Often a good 6th man 0.640 0.699
Satisfactory Role Player / Usually do not start 0.580 0.639
Marginal Role Player / Rarely start 0.520 0.579
Poor Player / Should never start 0.460 0.519
Very Poor Player 0.400 0.459
Extremely Poor Player .399 and less
AVERAGE RATINGS BY POSITION
Not all positions are created equal. These are the average ratings by position among all NBA players who play 300 minutes or more. There are very few small forwards and shooting guards who are superstars. Most (but definitely not all) superstars are players who can play point guard, power forward, or center.
Point Guard .750
Shooting Guard .640
Small Forward .640
Power Forward .720
Center .750
All Positions / All Players (NBA Overall Average) .700
PLAYOFF GRADE PLAYERS
Playoff Grade Players have ratings of .560 and higher. Players with ratings below .560 should not play in the playoffs unless the team is forced to play them so that they have two players at a position and/or so that the team has at least eight players playing in the playoffs and/or because the coach is absolutely certain the low rating player will play better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.
REGULAR SEASON STARTING PLAYERS
All starters on all teams should have ratings of .575 and higher. If a team has no player at a postion with at least a .575 rating, then it is extremely deficient at that position due to injuries or due to management incompetence.
THE ALL IMPORTANT, AWARD WINNING REAL PLAYER RATINGS USER GUIDE
The above are a few hightlights from the User Guide for Real Player Ratings. For complete details regarding how the Real Player Ratings are designed, how and why they work, and how exactly you can use them, see the User Guide. The User Guide for Real Player Ratings is a necessary reference for anyone who wants to truly understand the value of, the validity of, and the ways you can use the Real Player Rating performance measures.
Also, you should become a regular visitor to Quest for the Ring if you want to get the full advantage of reading and using Real Player Ratings Series performance measures. The more you visit and check out ratings, the more quickly and easily you will be able to evaluate what you are seeing.
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